d8bridge working with AUDIO on the console!!

[bitSync]

well I made a project in Google Code and for now only edited a TODO list... soon I will post the code and some more things...

http://code.google.com/p/d8b-2-mcu/wiki/todolist

Awesome. I've put a few ideas up there for you to consider. Just my 2 cents - I think you're handling this development beautifully, the way you are including this user community in your progress, soliciting ideas, etc. It's very, very cool. Your progress is really pretty amazing. Thanks for keeping us looped in!

[elperroromel]

Awesome. I've put a few ideas up there for you to consider. Just my 2 cents - I think you're handling this development beautifully, the way you are including this user community in your progress, soliciting ideas, etc. It's very, very cool. Your progress is really pretty amazing. Thanks for keeping us looped in!

well Thanks, if you would like to donate me one of your d8b, I would be very thankfully j.k.

I just answered you comment: http://code.google.com/p/d8b-2-mcu/wiki/todolist

[elperroromel]

Here I show how my cable was made

http://code.google.com/p/d8b-2-mcu/wiki/CableConnections




DB9 MALE:



DB9 FEMALE:



DB25 PINOUT (CPU MALE CONNECTOR)
.1 = COM1.1
.14 = COM1.2 RECEIVED DATA
.2 = COM1.3 TRANSMITTED DATA
.15 = COM1.4
.3 = COM1.5 GROUND
.16 = COM1.6

.4 = COM1.7
.17 = COM1.8
.5 = COM1.9
.18
.6 = COM2.1
.19 = COM2.2 RECEIVED DATA
.7 = COM2.3 TRANSMITTED DATA
.20 = COM2.3
.8 = COM2.4
.21 = COM2.5 GROUND
.9 = COM2.6
.22 = COM2.7
.10= COM2.8
.23 = COM2.9
.11
.24
.12
.25
.13

DB25 PINOUT (CONSOLE DATA FEMALE CONNECTOR)

.1 = COM1.1
.14 = COM1.3 TRANSMITTED DATA // NOTE THE SIGNALS HERE ARE
.2 = COM1.2 RECEIVED DATA // INVERTED,
.15 = COM1.4
.3 = COM1.5 GROUND
.16 = COM1.6

.4 = COM1.7
.17 = COM1.8
.5 = COM1.9
.18
.6 = COM2.1
.19 = COM2.3 TRANSMITTED DATA //NOTE THE SIGNALS HERE ARE
.7 = COM2.2 RECEIVED DATA //INVERTED
.20 = COM2.3
.8 = COM2.4
.21 = COM2.5 GROUND
.9 = COM2.6
.22 = COM2.7
.10= COM2.8
.23 = COM2.9
.11
.24
.12
.25
.13

NOTE: the wires from com2 port are connected directly from the d8b CPU to the console data port, matching the same pin number(only check where the pin 1 is, the pin numbers are inverted in male an female connectors, check images) and the wires from port COM1 , connected from the d8b CPU to the serial/USB interface, checking DB25 transmit data (DB25 Pin 2 ) is connected to DB9 received data ( DB9 Pin 2) And DB25 PIN 14 To DB9 Pin 2 and the rest of the pins to the corresponding pins listed, then connecting the other serial/USB intergace to the desk DB25 Port, Checking DB9 Transmit Data Pin 3 Is connected to DB25 Received data Pin 2 And DB9 Received Data Pin 2 To DB25 Transmit Data Pin 14, Note that Receive/transmit data pins are different in the d8b CPU DB25 Male Port and desk DB25 Female Port, thats because when you use a straight DB25 Cable(like the "console data" cable ) the Transmit data Pin from Serial Port on the CPU goes to the Received data Pin on the Desk,
(I hope you understand... yes even I got confused myself)

Oh and be sure to connect the Ground Pins to the corresponding pins, I don't know If is enough if you only connect the Transmit/receive/ground pins or you need to connect all Ports cables, maybe it would work, I haven't tried yet,

I'll try to make a "graphic" diagram later to show clearly how it is connected

[system32]

Kudos for a such a great work. You could send me some binaries later, i could test the software. Maybe today I will try to solder that cable, some simple graphic schema would be cool .

Thanks for all your work and cheers.

EDIT: Ok, i have read the whole 2 threads, and now i know whats the idea about connecting. I will make a cable with two USB to serial converters and will let You all know if that works (connecting only RX,TX and GND). Will try to make a virtual bridge on my computer. Btw. what baud rate it uses ?

[bitSync]

...too bad I just sold my MCU a week ago, now I can't see the data it sends, but I guess it was real 10 bit , I think maybe it wouldn't make a noticeable difference, and also, some DAWs have functions to "smooth" the faders movements

@elperroromel,

Before you sold your MCU did you have an opportunity to do any MIDI data capture on the MCU/DAW interface? There seems to be precious little reliable information out there about the MCP initialization sequence.

I don't have an MCU on hand to test with, and the only written documentation I have relates to Logic Control and HUI specifically, not the MCP. And what I've seen in the D8Bridge/DAW MIDI interface doesn't reveal much about how well the startup initialization is going between the D8Bridge software and the DAW software. The startup sequence I see is certainly a bit different from Logic Control (there's no Host Connection and Initialization SysEx going on). Although I can't state it with certainty, I am suspicious of the integrity of the startup MIDI sequence between D8Bridge and my DAW, mainly because of the initialization results I am getting and a few odd observations in the MIDI comms. I've got plenty of MIDI-OX data capture but nothing like an MCP specification to compare it against.

Are you aware of any resource that describes the manner in which an MCP controller and a DAW should initialize with each other? I'm actually considering getting hold of an MCU and XTs to use to do initialization MIDI capture to compare it against the D8Bridge initialization MIDI capture I have to possibly identify any notable differences. Can you recommend a better approach or resource? Thanks!

[elperroromel]

@elperroromel,

Before you sold your MCU did you have an opportunity to do any MIDI data capture on the MCU/DAW interface? There seems to be precious little reliable information out there about the MCP initialization sequence.

Nope, maybe I can contact the person I sold it to ask him if he could make me the favor of capture that data for me...

I don't have an MCU on hand to test with, and the only written documentation I have relates to Logic Control and HUI specifically, not the MCP. And what I've seen in the D8Bridge/DAW MIDI interface doesn't reveal much about how well the startup initialization is going between the D8Bridge software and the DAW software. The startup sequence I see is certainly a bit different from Logic Control (there's no Host Connection and Initialization SysEx going on). Although I can't state it with certainty, I am suspicious of the integrity of the startup MIDI sequence between D8Bridge and my DAW, mainly because of the initialization results I am getting and a few odd observations in the MIDI comms. I've got plenty of MIDI-OX data capture but nothing like an MCP specification to compare it against.

Are you aware of any resource that describes the manner in which an MCP controller and a DAW should initialize with each other? I'm actually considering getting hold of an MCU and XTs to use to do initialization MIDI capture to compare it against the D8Bridge initialization MIDI capture I have to possibly identify any notable differences. Can you recommend a better approach or resource? Thanks!

mm no, all the Information I found is related to Logic/HUI control initialization,maybe it's the same paper you found, I thought It would be similar, and the info found in the reaper extensions sdk in csurf_mcu.cpp file:

http://code.google.com/p/d8b-2-mcu/wiki/ReaperMCUDoc

[bitSync]

mm no, all the Information I found is related to Logic/HUI control initialization,maybe it's the same paper you found, I thought It would be similar, and the info found in the reaper extensions sdk in csurf_mcu.cpp file:

http://code.google.com/p/d8b-2-mcu/wiki/ReaperMCUDoc

@elperroromel,

Similar, yes. Identical, no. I think. I say that based only on what is going back and forth between D8Bridge and Sonar X2a on startup, since I don't have anything resembling an MCP specification. I think the switches, LEDs, faders and V-Pots are identical between MCP and LC. HUI I haven't looked at too closely. And it appears the SysEx for the VFD (MCU LCD) strings is the same in MCP and LC; if I translate the captured MCP SysEx for LCD Update (F0 00 00 66 14 12 ... F7) strictly according to the LC spec, I get the same strings that are showing up in the d8b VFD. But there are some SysEx startup messages going between the D8Bridge and the DAW that are not found in the LC MIDI spec. So there are definitely a few differences.

The most reliable docs I have at my disposal are the Logic Control Hardware Users Manual Version 2.0 from November 2002, and the reverse engineering job done by theageman for HUI. I haven't looked at Klinke's stuff for Reaper too carefully; I didn't see any sort of MIDI message breakout in his documentation. I see you have the link to the doc on the project wiki. Cool.

You said something in one of your posts about a keep-alive message? I saw that in theageman's HUI reverse engineering paper. But those 0x90 HUI ping messages (90 00 00 and 90 00 7F) in the MCP MIDI-OX captures are for the REC/RDY ControllerButtonPress and ControllerButtonRelease, so, different purposes in MCP and HUI. For MCP, instead of a ping, I see a never-ending flood of aftertouch messages (0xD0) from the DAW for the channel LED updates, one for each channel, which I guess more than compensates for any 2-second interval ping from the DAW required by HUI.

If nobody else does it, I'd like to document the startup MIDI exchange between a real deal MCU + 2 XTs (a loaner) and at least Sonar X2a, maybe some other DAWs if I can get some 30-day free trials. At least then we'll have some evidence of how some of the "licensed by Mackie" MCP users are implementing the startup protocol.

If you are interested in any of the D8Bridge/Sonar MIDI-OX startup capture data files I have, please let me know.

[Edit - I see you have the link to the LC Hardware manual on the project wiki.]

[bitSync]

In the reaper MCU documentation you posted on the project wiki, it mentions the following message from the MCU to the DAW upon startup -

Code: Select all

F0 00 00 66 14 01 58 59 5A 57 18 61 05 57 18 61 05 F7

but interestingly, D8Bridge sends no such F0 00 00 66 14 01 ... F7 message to the DAW on startup. Also interestingly, this message corresponds to the Host Connection Query message that Logic Control sends to the DAW on startup. Hmmm...

[elperroromel]

@elperroromel,

Similar, yes. Identical, no. I think. I say that based only on what is going back and forth between D8Bridge and Sonar X2a on startup, since I don't have anything resembling an MCP specification. I think the switches, LEDs, faders and V-Pots are identical between MCP and LC. HUI I haven't looked at too closely. And it appears the SysEx for the VFD (MCU LCD) strings is the same in MCP and LC; if I translate the captured MCP SysEx for LCD Update (F0 00 00 66 14 12 ... F7) strictly according to the LC spec, I get the same strings that are showing up in the d8b VFD. But there are some SysEx startup messages going between the D8Bridge and the DAW that are not found in the LC MIDI spec. So there are definitely a few differences.

The most reliable docs I have at my disposal are the Logic Control Hardware Users Manual Version 2.0 from November 2002, and the reverse engineering job done by theageman for HUI. I haven't looked at Klinke's stuff for Reaper too carefully; I didn't see any sort of MIDI message breakout in his documentation. If you haven't seen the Logic Control Hardware Users Manual Version 2.0, it's worth a look. Let me know if you want it.

You said something in one of your posts about a keep-alive message? I saw that in theageman's HUI reverse engineering paper. But those 0x90 HUI ping messages (90 00 00 and 90 00 7F) in the MCP MIDI-OX captures are for the REC/RDY ControllerButtonPress and ControllerButtonRelease, so, different purposes in MCP and HUI. For MCP, instead of a ping, I see a never-ending flood of aftertouch messages (0xD0) from the DAW for the channel LED updates, one for each channel, which I guess more than compensates for any 2-second interval ping from the DAW required by HUI.

If nobody else does it, I'd like to document the startup MIDI exchange between a real deal MCU + 2 XTs (a loaner) and at least Sonar X2a, maybe some other DAWs if I can get some 30-day free trials. At least then we'll have some evidence of how some of the "licensed by Mackie" MCP users are implementing the startup protocol.

If you are interested in any of the D8Bridge/Sonar MIDI-OX startup capture data files I have, please let me know.

I made a links section:

https://code.google.com/p/d8b-2-mcu/wiki/usefulLinks

maybe these are the same documents you are talking about, and about the ping message, yes I read it from the HUI pdf, and then maybe doesn't apply to the MCU,

If you have the startup messages sent to/from d8bridge maybe can be useful to me, and also I still haven't found how the meters in the d8b are updated, If you find something about it let me know (maybe you will need a program like Virtual Serial Ports Emulator to redirect the physical serial port to a virtual serial port splitter from which d8bridge could connect and have a hyperterminal client connected to the virtual serial port to read the messages sent)

[elperroromel]

In the reaper MCU documentation you posted on the project wiki, it mentions the following message from the MCU to the DAW upon startup -

Code: Select all

F0 00 00 66 14 01 58 59 5A 57 18 61 05 57 18 61 05 F7

but interestingly, D8Bridge sends no such F0 00 00 66 14 01 ... F7 message to the DAW on startup. Also interestingly, this message corresponds to the Host Connection Query message that Logic Control sends to the DAW on startup. Hmmm...

well maybe the Reaper guys send that sysex just in case and maybe was not necessary