A&H GSR24

[anyhorizon]

Hmmm. That's helpful to know, Dan. Thanks for passing it on.

Peter

[FrankH]

Ah...I love starting a shitstorm. All I can say about Behringer products these days is that it's more than underpaid labor that goes into those things to make them the crapfest they are.

As to: "it has to be better than the new Mackie digital toy". The saddest part about this product is that it is saddled to an iPad.

Peter's remark:"Behringer started out OK. I still have the original "Composer" which is built like a tank." made me laugh. I too have a Composer in the rack and it still works. Yes....they actually used to copy stuff without changing out the parts population with sub-standard junk. Not no mo.

As to the ZED16 story...not surprising. Allen & Heath have never been known for using quality parts either. The worrisome thing about the GS-R24m is that although it is feature-rich (and really well thought out, signal flow-wise) its pricing is under 10k here in the U.S.

What that means to me is that the bill of materials (BOM) is somewhere in the range of $1k-$1.5k. That's a lot of corner cutting. This makes me a little nervous...particularly because I know I'm not going to find one of these things conveniently set up in my local music store to try out. Right now, they pretty much appear to be "special order" units. You can read that as: if it breaks, be prepared to wait an unreasonable amount of time for a replacement or repair.

I also find it troublesome that A&H has virtually no advertising for the unit. At least not any I've seen here in the U.S. I read that as a lack of confidence in the product by their U.S. distributor: American Music and Sound. Word of mouth is not going to sell this thing. Does anyone find it a little disconcerting that the only review for the unit is a year old, in a UK publication? And that the only YouTube "review" is also about a year old? Or that there isn't a GS-R24 forum on their website?

I dunno, I want to love this thing and I really would like to replace my D8B with it* but there are some serious red flags that give me pause to plunk down $10k sight unseen coupled with a non-existent user base presence.

*its featureset is way more in line with what I use in my studio than the D8B is, these days.

[Crash]

Behringer started out OK. I still have the original "Composer" which is built like a tank. Peter

True, those units were built in Germany as I recall, before they started building their units out of recycled tin foil. The link on here with all of the Rafters mixes has original Composers all over it from the tracking of the album.

[anyhorizon]

Frank, I think you'll find that if you add a F/W or analogue card (both of which I'd like to have for different interfacing requirements) it's gonna be over $10K. It doesn't seem like a toy to me but then, I haven't been hands on which is always difficult with items that get up there in price, albeit much less than an SSL AWS 9000. Dunno. The reviews have all been encouraging and I can't imagine they'd use suss parts. I'm assuming metal film resistors and components of that ilk. I like that the boards for each channel are vertically mounted instead of one flat indecipherable arrangement. Maybe it's just the transistors, valves and VUs that turn me on .

Peter

[anyhorizon]

Crash, when I was doing lots of commercial work, I used the Composer across the stereo bus for every mix. All my clients kept asking, "how the heck do you get that stuff jumping out of the TV like that?" I just smiled and pointed to the black box in the rack. I never let them get close enough to decipher what it was for fear of them going to another jingle guy and saying, "you gotta get one of these!" Let 'em suffer baby. Anyway it was just an Aphex Compeller without the name tag. I didn't feel guilty either because the scam that was the Aphex Aural Exciter needed to be addressed What a heap of doggy doo that was.

Peter

[FrankH]

Frank, I think you'll find that if you add a F/W or analogue card (both of which I'd like to have for different interfacing requirements) it's gonna be over $10K.

Jezuz....does anybody do their homework here? The motorized fader version is selling (depending where you look) for around $9k. The FW/ADAT card around $700. That's under $10k as stated.

The reviews have been encouraging? All ONE of them? The YouTube thing doesn't count because it is anything but thorough compared to the SOS review. It's more like a bad photo shoot.

As to the components, my educated guess on the BOM is going to be really close. And from what I can see, it means cheapness all around: caps, IC's, transistors, resistors, power supply, PCB fabrication, metalwork, Lexan overlays, silkscreening, connectors, wiring, LEDs, meters, switches, knobs, faders and tubes. The BOM doesn't include labor pricing.

Typically, the MSRP to BOM ratio is typically 10/8:1. Corners have been cut. Many.

[anyhorizon]

Geez, there's no need to jump down my throat. I'm in Australia so things are a little different here and our $ is currently worth more than yours. I dunno. I'll go check Sweetwater or something.

Peter

[FrankH]

Does this message from Sweetwater regarding the "special order" status of the GS-R24 ring any warning bells for you?

Because of our great relationship with Allen & Heath, we can get this item as fast as or faster than anyone else. Please note that special orders are non-returnable and non-cancelable

Does for me. Order this and it's "no backsies". There is no "lemon law" for consoles like we have for cars here.

Look...like I said earlier....I really want to love this thing. On paper, it's exactly what I'd like to replace my D8B with. However, there are a number of things about it that are making me pause. The main one being: there is simply not enough user related information regarding the reliability of this board out there to suit my taste.

Seriously, I wouldn't buy a new car based on one year old review. And knowing what I know about manufacturing audio gear, I am genuinely concerned about what A&H has actually stuffed inside this thing. And for 10k, I'd prefer to see a minimum of a 3 year parts, shipping and labor warranty.

And I wasn't jumping down your throat. More like "yelling at the glass" in my car as someone texting swerves into my lane.

[anyhorizon]

Yeah. The more hunting you do, the more the differences of opinion. Trouble is, the internot has a proliferation of said opinions, more often than not offered by those who haven't got a clue. It takes time to ascertain someone's bona fide. I guess I'll try and get a hands on appraisal on my own.

Peter

[Crash]

As cool as this desk appears to be, you would think there would be a ton of people out there that own this and would sing it's praises. It is oddly quiet.... I won't be unloading my d8b/HDR combo just yet.