Converting a D8B to a full fledged DAW Controller (w/o MIDI)

[Zorba the Geek]

Congratulations on the latest progress Marc and Frank. Thank you for all the hard work you have already put in and good luck with the Beta testing Peter. It is very exciting to see this project nearing a release date. Please add me to the list of definite and immediate buyers whenever the d8bridge is finally released.

I must say however that I am finding the tone of some posts rather strange, if not downright insulting to the hard work of the main contributors to the d8bridge project. I would have thought that the first sentiments that should be expressed when requesting one’s wish-list items would be: 'thank you for even making this request possible given your hard work and persistence in reverse-engineering the d8b'. What I am sensing a lot of is, "when will this be finished, why doesn't this do all that I want, in the way I want, and could you also do it for less, with a free trial period and possibly a discount if I were to wire up the cable myself”. Phrases like “I’m afraid we’ll be let down,” “it’s better than nothing, but not quite flexible,” “it just kills me that it completely throws all audio and monitoring functions out the window” come across as more than a little mean-spirited. What about this strange back-handed comment: “what you envision as your perfect implementation of this software might not align with other people's ideas/situations.” I understand that some of you may find Marc’s solution not to your liking, not fulfilling all your needs and desires, but it is his hard work that has got us to this point, and he deserves great credit for this.

Marc and Francois have been generous enough to ask for input and feature requests and have politely responded to queries and suggestions. They have even gone to the great effort of looking into creating a Mac version of the software and explained the programming difficulties this entails. They have been true gentlemen throughout.

I happen to totally agree with Marc’s approach in initially configuring the d8b as a 24 channel DAW control surface and leaving out all audio functionality. The d8b as DAW controller paradigm does however involve a significant additional outlay for those currently without outboard pres, converters, a DAW-audio-interface and some form of monitoring control. Modern AD/DA converters and DAW interfaces however are sonically superior, can be had for reasonable money and setting up your I/O in relation to the DAW is preferable for session recall and outboard integration. Given that the d8b would not pass audio in this scenario, the d8b clock function would not be a problem, as whatever converter/interface you use would take over this master clock role.

I realize that for people using the d8b as their primary audio interface this is not great news, however for those unwilling or unable to make the transition to this way of operating, there is nothing stopping you from continuing to use your d8b as your audio interface just as you have been. For those contemplating a change, the obvious downside of maybe having to upgrade some equipment does come with many significant benefits. You will not have to rely on an old, slow, limited and potentially unreliable hardware backend to keep your d8b console running into the future. The d8b console will now be controlled by a faster, more stable and upgradeable CPU backend. Using a modern DAW also allows access to the continuously increasing power of native computer processing, the option of higher sample rates, access to more sophisticated DAW project automation and audio editing, the ability to quickly change mixer views, as well as access to modern virtual instruments and plug-ins mixed via the d8b.

In summary, in-the-box mixing is most definitely a whole new way of working and has its own pluses and minuses. This d8b mod should be seen in this light and admired in its own right. For those using a DAW as the central hub of their studios, the d8bridge is revolutionary. For those not using a DAW, it is obviously up to you to weigh-up the pros and cons of making any changes to your workflow and production environment. Moving to an in-the-box recording process may be new and confusing; however the new paradigm has much to recommend it. The greatest virtue in my opinion is the massive choice and freedom made available to mix and match items to your needs and wants. Trying to capture too many functions in the one device is where many products fall apart. This makes upgrading, replacing or repairing any one component problematic in the future. Rather than having the d8b house your pres, converters, be your audio interface, mixer & monitoring controller, you can choose your own pres, converters, outboard, audio interface, with the d8b acting as an intuitive control surface that works with your DAW of choice. This is such a flexible production environment that can change and grow with you.


“Having your cake and eating it too” is something end users may have to work out for themselves. It is not Marc’s responsibility to cater to everyone’s preferences. Having the old and new paradigms co-exist isn’t really what I think the d8bridge is about. Maybe in a future phase two software update, however that is not for us end-users to demand or expect. A courteous and polite enquiry is more than acceptable, but sadly I haven’t observed that spirit at times in some recent posts. If and when Marc decides to adopt any additional audio functionality, release a Mac version, create a switch to allow an easy change-over from the old d8b to the new d8bridge is up to him and should be applauded and greeted with the credit it deserves.

What doesn’t seem to get mentioned often enough is that Marc and Francois have managed to break through the 8 channel HUI limit, doubled the d8b’s fader resolution, bypassed all the level and panning mismatches that were problematic with d8b midi mapping, significantly sped up the led metering, added scrolling and banking functions, taken control of the VFD and other master section buttons, in addition to more goodies that have yet to be revealed.

Marc, Francois and all the other contributors, thank you, thank you and thank you again for taking on this project. It is a brilliant idea, well executed and all handled with admirable patience and determination. I love my d8b, but I will surely love it even more as a comprehensive 24 channel DAW controller. I genuinely admire all that you have done and even more so the spirit in which it has been conducted.

Cheers and congratulations to you. I hope you get duly rewarded for all your hard work.

Kind regards,
George

[eaygee]

@George Exactly.... I give thanks to Marc & Francois for there work. As I said early soon as the pre-order list is available I will be purchasing this software no problem.

[markd56]

I completely agree with George's post and I too will be purchasing the upgrade when Marc & Co are ready to release it. Well done to the guys and keep up the good work!!

[Red Carpet]

thanks thanks everybody that works on this project

i am Geert
i live in the netherlands

i own a d8b console and i bought it when i saw the first d8b hack movie because i think its super duper great
i am really excited about this project.

but i have a question for sorba the geek because i did not understand the folowing ===(Given that the d8b would not pass audio in this scenario, the d8b clock function would not be a problem, as whatever converter/interface you use would take over this master clock role)==== i have an apogee world clock in my d8b will this still work then?
or can i sell it cos i won't need it anymory
i bought 3 mackie onyx 400f unit because i thought i can daisy wire them ,but then i heard you can only daisy wire 2 units over windows

well anyway thank you Mark and Francois for the work so far maybe one day you have the benefits from my work too but thats for later.
im waiting in vain

[Petersueco]

When the d8b is connected in bridge mode, the audio functions of the board can't be used.

[synthjoe]

@George

Phrases like “I’m afraid we’ll be let down,” “it’s better than nothing, but not quite flexible,” “it just kills me that it completely throws all audio and monitoring functions out the window” come across as more than a little mean-spirited. What about this strange back-handed comment: “what you envision as your perfect implementation of this software might not align with other people's ideas/situations.” I understand that some of you may find Marc’s solution not to your liking, not fulfilling all your needs and desires, but it is his hard work that has got us to this point, and he deserves great credit for this.

Since some of these are my comments I feel it right to point out in the first place that English is not my native language and words sound different/harsher/milder to people from different cultures (that much I have learned in my many years overseas).

I agree with you on most of the points you've made, however, as a developer of products I also have an idea of what criticism does to a product. It actually improves it, rather than the opposite - and developers must be prepared to take this if they are truly into creating a great product (which I believe is what Marc and Francois are doing). This is not to say that the product these two fine Gentlemen have developed is not already something great and a real cornerstone in the history of the d8b that deserves respect and gratefulness from us.

My specific comment, however, was only to say that people who expected an easy switch over between the two functions (audio vs. DAW) immediately, will probably have to live without it, for the time being. Just a wild guess without knowing what's in Marc's head, daring to hazard a guess because I have an idea what would be involved in solving this and if it was my own development schedule, it'd certainly be out of scope in the first phase. Fully agree that the current scope is significant, great value and manageable - that I trust Marc and Francois are on target to deliver. I did not intend to make (and believe having not made) reference to any other areas of the d8bridge project or functionality. In that sense your quoting was taking my words out of context.

So in that sense - and considering the above - I can assure you, that my comment (and probably others' too) couldn't have been any farther from 'mean-spirited' and have probably said enough 'thank you' to allow for some (hopefully constructive) criticism, even if I did not intend my post to be considered as such. After all, opposing forces is what moved the world forward and resulted in revolutionary leaps forward, since forever...

BTW: just to reiterate, d8bridge is a great concept, Marc and Francois are doing a great job building it and I can hardly wait to get my hands on the PT variant. Thanks for the effort!

[FrankH]

I can assure you, that my comment (and probably others' too) couldn't have been any farther from 'mean-spirited'

Synthjoe:
I was going to respond to the same thread but you appear to have voiced pretty much everything I was going to say and quite eloquently at that .
As a former member of the D8Bs development team, I would like to point out that constant constructive criticism between team members was a large factor in the D8Bs development process. The basic rule of thumb was: The best idea wins.

I'll give you an example. Before the D8B was released, the entire software architecture was re-written 3 times...from the ground up. After it was released, the V5 version was a major re-write of V3.

The reason there was no V4 was kind of an inside joke based on Nigel Tufnel's quote in Spinal Tap: "well....this one goes to 11". We almost named it V11.

[synthjoe]

Thanks, Frank. May the best idea win again and again. Hope d8bridge will go to (v)11, one day!

[rcb4t2]

Peter - would you mind checking something for me (us) while you have the beta. I know the analog audio routing doesn't work while using the bridge, but do the 12 preamps work and pass audio from the XLR input to the channel inserts? Thanks!

[Marc Girard]

Hello all,

Just wanted to let you know that I finally purchased my 2nd D8B for further development! Gotta work on the web site now! More news real soon!

Marc