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Converting a D8B to a full fledged DAW Controller (w/o MIDI)

Discussion board for Mackie's d8b Digital Console users.

Re: Converting a D8B to a full fledged DAW Controller (w/o M

Postby High C Double G » Fri Oct 14, 2011 1:55 pm

Back in the early nineties, I did a lot of work in a smaller studio with a Ghost board (I think that was the name?), I don't remember much about it but the guy loved the thing and I didn't know very much at all at the time and I was really just a player although I been in a lot of studios by that time in my life so I knew basically how things worked. So one day I asked him about this big box on the floor and it was the power for the board. He always wanted to be able to hide the thing somehow. I have a similar deal on some microphones that I use as they need their own power. I don’t know why I was reminded of that but I was…

The overwhelming success of the d8b is, and has been, how flexible it is... this is the forte' of this mixer. Does it have "audio" flaws? Yes and no, the more you know about the "as it is" d8b, the more effectively you can use it with great success. Learn what not to do.

In a real world market for this (your) software product, cutting out what the d8b already is would be a mistake I think for the home enthusiast and small studio guy.

Just as a matter of mentioning my d8b has always worked great; it is not plagued with the problems so often talked about on this forum and the other forum. I am lucky. I use the mixer to do my little work here and it works fine. Do I avoid certain aspects of the board? You bet, but this is strictly an audio choice – I can choose, so I do just that. I think the majority of d8b users are in the category of it works great every time. It is deceiving that the Internet has plagued this mixer to be problematic. It really is not problematic. Of course for a few, it is… has been… and will be. I stress the word a few.

A lot has happened in the maybe 20??? years since its release. For me it is all ones and zeros and the occasional analogue I/O because it happens to work well for the app. And just so you know, I have a computer DAW actually two … it’s 2011 for gosh sake – I think it (computer recording) is great. But I also love the sound of an 8-track ¼” Teac machine, but I am not going to use one :roll: … okay I actually might… moving on.

But to the d8b…

I use a bunch of different high end front-end products and the back-end is a high end D/A straight to a Hafler P-series Amp with my awesome sets of old school speak-easys. I find the EQ and compression (on board) more than adequate and quite good actually – even by today’s DAW computer program wizardry standards, and the Drawmer and Massenberg plug-ins are very good too. The auto tune actually works, but my computer version looks nicer and has more settings.

I also use some old (analog) compressors that are just hard to give up because they sound very good and have a character to them.

When this goes to the market, think flexibility Marc, don’t cut off your nose to spite your face. Some people will want only the control surface functions and if it is quiet and it is all in one area (for a small studio) this is good I know this will be good for those folks.

Honestly, I work in some of the biggest studios here in LA and everything is in the machine room – noise is not a factor in the client area – the client’s comfort is the only factor… the less garbage and the cleaner it looks, how cool it is, temperature control, correct lighting, if it is a video bay how does the projector look on the screen, are there comfortable seats, are there enough seats for everyone – the list is much longer than this of course… snickers bars, good coffee… etc. I know this isn’t exactly the target market for your product but why not? If it would become a target market the power supply becomes a non issue to where it is located, as it would certainly be remote and the “original” d8b functions would certainly not be desirable to this caliber of buyer. So find your possibility – I do this for a living and I am giving you some free advice – don’t limit your self with this product. Quite often (most often) we see things as it applies to ourselves. It is a human character flaw.
When you work as I do, I take myself out of the condition and look at the all that is possible aspect.

Also (and I hope this is true) as things improve in the economy and people expand their facility, it could be a viable solution to have the ability to have use of both products depending on their needs. I had a boss a long time ago say to me, “the difference between you and me is that I think big” That statement changed my life.

I don’t know you Marc, and I really hope you can see that I am a caring helpful person. We are on this planet for a short time, and I don’t care one way or another how you pursue this. I got my own stuff to do. A word of advice (yes unsolicited) --- sorry I know that is direct violation of a man rule… but a word of advice anyway, do not limit yourself with this product.

MPD out.
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Re: Converting a D8B to a full fledged DAW Controller (w/o M

Postby deanoh » Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:11 pm

Hello Everyone,

Why do we have to stick to a PC type of power supply? Can't we separate the 5V, 12V and +/-16V into three or four different boards since the wattage we need after removing the analogue section and motherboard or just the motherboard even, is not going to be as high as before and power all three/four individual circuits from a single mains cable?

There are so many circuit products out there, some even better in quality than PC PSUs and in lots of cases cheaper as well. And since this is not a Use-Your-Spare-Components free project and Marc wants to do it properly (I agree), lets investigate how these three/four circuits can be separated and then check for circuits designs online that almost all under 250W are fanless too!

Regards,

Deanoh
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Re: Converting a D8B to a full fledged DAW Controller (w/o M

Postby deanoh » Fri Oct 14, 2011 3:52 pm

@Michael (High C Double G),

All you mentioned here are true Michael. However (and I express just my own opinion), there are all different areas and Marc can apply the Think Big life/work concept to the software side of view and make it as flexible and great as can possibly be. The hardware side of things though, is another part of the package and he can offer the product with the software and serial cable only for those who can't be bothered with modifications (big studios, producers, etc.) and some others who are prepared to put some personal work to the power supply area can do that too I guess.

I don't think there are any restrictions between the two other than time spent on PSU tests that might delay the software release. But again, Marc can prioritize the software and serial cable to come out first and then start the PSU experiments and if then the one affects the other, then adjust accordingly.

Regards,

Deanoh
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Re: Converting a D8B to a full fledged DAW Controller (w/o M

Postby synthjoe » Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:50 pm

Marc Girard wrote:If we're gonna mount the PC PSU in the d8b, we'll probably need to also mount the rest of the PSU as the d8b needs more that +5v and +12v.

Marc, for the functionality I understand you're implementing I don't think any other voltage is necessary. +5 and +12 should be sufficient, all the rest (+/-16 and +48) is only needed for the analogue part.
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Re: Converting a D8B to a full fledged DAW Controller (w/o M

Postby rcb4t2 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:50 am

I gotta ask (and with all due respect to Marc et al.) - while the idea of separating the d8b from the CPU is cool, is it really a critical issue to address now? It seems to me that you have the software 99% of the way to completion, save a few bugs and things. But you seem to be getting hung up on some specific details that might not (in my eyes) need to be addressed in the V1 release - CPU separation, that panning acceleration thing you mentioned a while ago, fader calibration separate from the mackie OS, and a few other details I can't recall right now. Now maybe this is just the part of me that is anxious for this software talking, but why not focus on getting what you already have programmed production-ready, and save the rest for future releases? Also consider what some others seem to be eluding to in the last couple of pages - what you envision as your perfect implementation of this software might not align with other people's ideas/situations. Now you're the one doing all the work and you certainly have every right to tailor the software to your specs, but consider flexibility and open-endedness in your endeavors.

I know how it is when you have a big project that you've laid out for yourself - I feel like I've gone through a similar thing recently in the construction of my studio. I spent so much time planning and designing - when I got near the end I got a "forest for the trees" syndrome - I'd obsess over tiny aesthetic details - this prevented me from getting the place fully up and running for some time! Finally I had to just power through it, let a few tiny things slide, and focus on the end goal. Come to think of it, I'm going through the same thing again with my website! Hours trying to code the css so that damn rollover link looks right, but I haven't written the copy yet! :D

Anyway, I mean no harm with this but we're all anxious to get this software rolling, regardless of a few details - we'll all eagerly await V2 for those things! (or perhaps other members of this community can help with issues like the CPU / power supply thing)
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Re: Converting a D8B to a full fledged DAW Controller (w/o M

Postby High C Double G » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:04 am

Yeah Marc... get crackin man... we are all waiting!!! :lol: I don't want to use up valueable real estate on issues that do not matter at this point. Just know we are all really excited and I trust you will do your best.

Honestly it is so awesome I can not beleive it really. very happy, If you were here I would kiss you! I kid around a bit but really I am glad you lend your ear to our ideas however quirky. Stay the course, brother!
Michael
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Re: Converting a D8B to a full fledged DAW Controller (w/o M

Postby Marc Girard » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:07 pm

Hey guys,

Yes, I know, you guys are eager to get the software. I'll probably release V1.0 without the fancy stuff included (fader calibration, etc) because it'll take the release date further away. Right now, my software works without any fader calibration at all. You can also use the "fadercal.txt" file straight from the Mackie OS but it's a bitch to retrieve...

These days, I'm working like a mad man at the studio, next week will probably be more productive!

Marc
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Re: Converting a D8B to a full fledged DAW Controller (w/o M

Postby exitmike » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:23 pm

Keep up the good work Marc.

I have a question about connectivity...
from what i understand, the console will be connected by a custom data serial cable to the computer... would there be communication conflict if i use this in conjunction with lets say a Mackie C4 extender that uses midi ?... or any of the extenders ?
thanks
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Re: Converting a D8B to a full fledged DAW Controller (w/o M

Postby deanoh » Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:27 pm

@synthjoe,

Hi Joe,
I know you mentioned that, regarding voltages, already on page 15 so, if you are certain and Marc can confirm it too, if the +/- 16 is out of the way, most PSUs come with +5 and +12 as standard so we don’t need to necessarily go for a PC PSU style and especially for a passive one that they are proved very unreliable. If we know the wattage and that can be up to 250W, 99% of them are passive, half the size and for a bit more money with better specs (medical type for example) as well.

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Re: Converting a D8B to a full fledged DAW Controller (w/o M

Postby synthjoe » Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:01 pm

Yep, perfectly possible. As I wrote, my fixation is on PC PSU as I have a significant stock of them - I use those for everything, PA power to paperweight, everything. What you suggest is sensible and a good way to go, even though I have no idea what current rating, noise figure and damping factor the PSU should have. Since the PC style PSU in the CPU is used for the 12V we can safely assume that it will not draw more than 9A and a mundane PC PSU spec is appropriate. However, I have no reliable means to know what current is/will be drawn from the 5V supply and have no information on the figures of the ASTEC PSU - given that the PC PSU has 25A capacity, I guess it was not a current concern that made Mackie designers install a third PSU (ASTEC) in the case...
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