D8B Won't Show Time rolling in transport.

[Bruce Graham]

I once had no MTC and discovered the problem was in the BIOS settings in the HDR.

One of the setting is for the HDR to generate and output the MTC. Can't remember which setting it was!? Sorry. It was one of the IRQ setting I think?. It was a long time ago. My studio is not not setup at the moment or I would check it for you. If I get time, I will set the HDR up and have a look.

A side note of my experiences. I have tried to setup the d8b/HDR combo as a stand along and using a Master clock generator for reference, and have found that the d8b really wants to be the master. Mine doesn't like to be a slave to my HDR's.

It might be a thought to start that way, "d8b Master clock, HDR Slave", and see if it works like that once you get your MTC issue corrected. Once working you can reconfigure and see what happens. Just a thought.

Best of luck
Bruce

[Y-my-R]

...oh, and I forgot to mention that HUI mode was active on my D8B (since I use that with my DAW). This could also prevent incoming MIDI Timecode/SMPTE to be displayed on the time display of the D8B, since it would then be waiting to get that as part of the HUI protocol MIDI transfer from a DAW.

As for the clock source... IMO there are benefits to run a better clock like the one in the Rosetta (especially if that is the most-used converter in the digital setup) to clock everything else.

If the D8B was hooked up in the middle of a daisy chain and HDR didn't lock on on the other end, that's because the "pass-through" of Word Clock on the D8B via an Apogee Clock Card isn't working as one would think, since the termination is always on (and the second BNC is a phase shifted signal for use with Tascam recorders and NOT a "pass-through" for word clock).

If the D8B doesn't like to run as WC slave, there might be a different problem, somewhere... I had a case where one capacitor on an Apogee clock card had separated on one side (cracked solder spot). That card let me run the D8B in internal clock mode (and reliably), but it would not reliably clock to external word clock... but sometimes would work but pop and click (External clock sync on the D8B is ESSENTIAL for my setup, if the D8B wants to stay part of it... I use the clock from my converter/interface and distribute it via a master clock since I have too many digital devices to daisy-chain. But in terms of digital clocking, the D8B is kinda the "weakest link" in my setup, so I certainly wouldn't want that as my master clock. If, then only to test if that makes a difference for everything locking together).
So, if your D8B doesn't like to run as WC slave, I'd take a close look at the capacitors on that card (...but it could be "any" bad contact that is part of the "external clock" word clock circuit... not sure how much of that exists outside of the clock card, itself).

Anyway, mostly stopped by to say to check that HUI mode is off on the D8B, when not using it with a DAW but "only" with the HDR.
Kinda TMI on my thoughts on clocking, sorry...

[Y-my-R]

I just looked at the manual, and the way it illustrates how to connect the word clock between a D8B and an HDR, would conflict with my understanding of what the Apogee Clock card does, and how it handles termination.

I guess the D8B/HDR combo accommodate for that particular setup, somehow, via a closed loop - but for ANY OTHER piece of gear you would clock "daisy-chained" with the D8B anywhere else than at one of the ends of the chain, this is how you normally do it (see picture):

A: Modified clock card required, that lets you turn off Word Clock Termination (75 Ohm)

B: Daisy-chain via T-Connector piece at the Word Clock INPUT of the Apogee Clock card. Don't use the Word Clock output to daisy-chain. (I still think this is phase-flipped, but not sure where I read that).

C: If external clock on the D8B is not working as it should, check if the place where a capacitor should be in the lower right circled corner of this clock card is present or lost completely (like in this picture - it needs to be there, for external clock to work). If present, make sure the solder spots on both sides look like they make good contact (or measure). If missing... replace.

ApogeeClock_Mod_Daisy_s.jpg (Array KiB) Viewed 4787 times

[Phil.c]

I'm not sure I understand the info given here about terminating the Apogee word clock in the d8b but I have been using a master clock for twenty five years, to HDR (terminated) and d8b.

[Y-my-R]

If you’re using a master clock, then you “distribute” the clock signal in a “star-shape” - meaning you have multiple clock outputs on the master clock, and each device you clock to it is connected via a dedicated clock cable going from the master clock to the digital device.

In such a setup, "all ends" need to be terminated (e.g. Master Clock (Terminated) to D8B (Terminated), as well as Master Clock (Terminated) to HDR (Terminated).)

Machmike described a daisy-chained word-clock setup. So, instead of star-shaped, that is “serial” connection (but except for in special circumstances, usually NOT a loop).

In his case, he said he tried to use the Rosetta converter as the master clock, daisy-chain the D8B off of it for word clock, and then pass the signal on to the HDR.

For such a daisy-chain scenario, only the very ends of the daisy chain should be terminated. Any device anywhere in the “middle” of such a daisy-chain that should receive word clock, but should allow the word clock signal to continue down the line to the next device, requires that Word Clock is NOT terminated at that "in the middle" device.

So, because the Apogee Clock card has termination ALWAYS ON, you have to modify the card if you want to use the D8B as part of a daisy chain, at any other position in the word-clock signal flow, than at the ends.
(But per the manual, if you ONLY use a D8B and HDR together, you can connect Word Clock between them in a "closed loop" where In goes to out, and out goes to in on both devices... this is NOT the standard way to hook up word clock if any 3rd party devices are involved).

Using a Master Clock makes everything simpler, and IMO is necessary when using more then 3 devices since it can otherwise get pretty finicky and unreliable (especially if using devices that are very picky about word clock like the D8B).

[Y-my-R]

I think I might have found a clue, that Bruce has already eluded to, above:

If IRQ 10 is not reserved for ISA/Legacy in the BIOS, then MIDI communication doesn't happen with the HDR.

In sorta "vintage" PC computers, IRQ 10 is an important kind of "permission level" to "interrupt" the main processor of the computer, to handle a task coming from IRQ 10 via an "ISA" type of card slot on the motherboard (IRQ9 is another one, commonly available to "Media Controllers" in vintage PCs... but doesn't play a role in the HDR/D8B, I think).

So, the MIDI board (a card that fits into such a "ISA-slot" on the motherboard inside the PC part of the rack unit) that lives inside the HDR, needs permission to use IRQ 10 in order to be able to "interrupt" (IRQ=Interrupt Request) the processor inside the PC part what's inside the HDR. If it doesn't have that, MIDI communication doesn't happen... so, no sync between the D8B and HDR.

The way I found out was, that my HDR was down until recently... finally managed to get in the BIOS (bad contact at the KVM) and set everything to how it should be, then posted what I wrote further above.

Today, I wanted to boot the system again, just to see if it still works... and that battery is dead, and the settings are gone... and if I try to skip the BIOS settings by pressing "F1 to continue", despite all the correct settings, elsewhere, the transport control doesn't move and the Play/Stop etc., buttons don't work.

So, next thing I tried, was to ONLY reserve IRQ 10 in the BIOS for ISA/Legacy and not even put the rest of the BIOS settings the way they're supposed to be (well... I turned off the Parallel port since that's not used, but otherwise, didn't follow instructions)... and on the next boot... my transport controles and time display on the D8B worked again, and showed the same stuff as on the HDR.

I guess I really have to replace that battery in the HDR AGAIN, already...

...also, because I talked about clock termination further above, a lot. For everyone reading along, I'm attaching what you need if you were to just REMOVE termination entirely, from the Apogee Clock card and NOT install a switch... you could then use a BNC T-Piece to attach a 75 Ohm Terminator on one end of the T-Piece, and have the BNC cable go down the chain to your other devices that should receive and/or pass through a word clock signal via a dedicated word clock BNC connection.

Arnie75!
(Nobody calls it that, haha... sorry!)

HDR_D8B_Time_Arnie75 2.jpg (Array KiB) Viewed 119 times