Potential new user… But need some info!

[csp]

If I read you correctly it does not come with either the Apogee or standard Mackie clock card, if so the desk is basically a boat anchor unless you can buy one on ebay and in your situation with all that you want to do, it will need to be the Apogee card.

Remember that the cards with the BNC output connectors are NOT the required clock card.

I have just done an ebay search and none are for sale, all that I could find were two desks for about $US450 that are marked as for "Parts Only" and both have the Apogee card --- I have no idea if the cards are OK.

David

[paugui]

How do I see if it has the standard Mackie Clock card?

This one is missing - https://reverb.com/item/29442186-apogee ... ital-mixer
But I'm not sure how the other one is supposed to look…

I was thinking that card was just useful to let you use an external word clock signal with the mixer, which would be nice since I've seen many posts of people saying it can really make a difference to use a better clock, but right now, it wouldn't make a huge difference since I don't have any dedicated clock I could use with it, except maybe my RME Fireface 800?

Oh… I didn't mention that, but it also as the expansion with the AES/EBU and S/PDIF!
Not sure why I got the impression that one wasn't removable…

[Y-my-R]

The standard word clock card, "disappears" into the desk, in the same way the MFX and UFX cards disappear into the desk.

It would install into the same card slot as where the Apogee Clock card would go (i.e. the type of card in the reverb link you shared). So, with the "standard" clock card installed, there's usually a slot cover over the clock card slot, that you'd remove to get to the card.

If there's just an open and unused empty slot where the Apogee Clock card would go, then that unit is only a "boat anchor" at this point, as David said.

I'd also think about WHY that clock card is missing, though. It's definitely the easiest thing to sell from a D8B, since not everybody who has a D8B got one of those when new (some just used the "stock" clock card) - so, there's a lot of demand.

However, if the whole D8B system would have worked without issues... why not sell the whole system for more money, but instead sell the clock card and make an "otherwise perfectly running" system useless?

The reason could well be, that the rest of the system was NOT perfectly running, and that selling the clock card was a way to make money without getting complaints... and now getting rid of the rest of the mixer "for cheap" and "as-is" will keep too many complaints at bay, as well (for the seller).

So, I'd be rather suspicious about this.

Also, the DIO8 cards (with the ADAT and TDIF connectors), need to have a firmware chip on them that starts with 2.x... cards with the older 1.x chip will be 16-bit only. A mix of 1.x and 2.x cards in the same system, can create all kinds of wild issues... weird hangups and crashes, too.
So, definitely check the firmware version on these cards before purchase.

As for how much such a mixer without a clock card is worth... I recently posted some long text as a response to a similar question in the "for sale" section of this forum, about how I think pricing depends on LOCAL supply and demand (because shipping is expensive for D8B systems and frequently causes additional issue, and that can vary wildly, depending on location.

...as stated over there, in a location like here in Los Angeles, where there's plenty of supply, but relatively low demand, I wouldn't pay more than $200 for a "complete" system... but wouldn't care if it gives Error 43, since "something" will likely need some maintenance and basic fixing at the beginning anyway.

You might be super-lucky and find a local unit that wasn't moved around much, and that supposedly worked for the last 20 years without problems, where the buyer wants A LOT more than that. And in theory, that might be reasonable... that is, until the moment when your, say, $1,000 D8B is set up at your studio, and has exactly the same issues you can find across this forum.

So, I'd rather have these issues $200 later, than $1000 later.

As a good (or rather bad) example - David/csp who posted above, has a great working D8B system he's been using for decades. And because he liked it so much, he bought an additional D8B system with the idea to "donate" it to a community center, so the studio there can benefit from it...
...and then he went on to spend 2 intense years of troubleshooting on that desk, but in the end, could never roll it out to that community center, since it wouldn't continue to work reliably enough, after "seemingly" fixing all the issues. They always came back, and it's unclear why.

So, IF you can get a D8B to nicely work, it sounds like it "could" be a great addition to your studio, and it sounds like you're the kind of guy who appreciates old gear like that for what it is. But the "IF" part is really a big gamble, IMO. I think the chances that you'd just get an Apogee Clock card and put it in that desk, and that it would just start working perfectly from there, are pretty low.

I think you'd at least have to be prepared to replace the battery and do a full ribbon-cable reset, and clean as many of the internal contacts as possible. More or less all of these desks need that procedure done at some point in their life (or multiple times... every few years when they start acting up, again).

That's why I have mentioned "old alternatives" like the Yamaha 02R. I haven't suddenly become a fan of these desks - they're boring and they don't stand out in any way at all. Pretty plain, all across. BUT they usually just work. And you can get expansion cards for them, similar as for the D8B, for a similar final input count.

So, if I'd have to start over with all this, I probably wouldn't go the D8B route... but if you decide that that's what you want to do... there's a great bunch of people who will try to help every step of the way... but again, sometimes it doesn't work out. See David's "not quite the end of the saga" thread on here... and he definitely already knew his way around a D8B, but it still didn't work out in the end.

I'm supposed to do some work right now... but I think I'll come back later, to clarify a few things you mentioned (e.g. the "built-in" Mackie HUI in the D8B, etc.).

[paugui]

To be clear, the unit is supposedly working so it should have the Mackie clock inside!
The faceplate in the back isn’t missing, so I have no reason to believe it’s not there!

However, the guy said the mixer was stored, so I have to make sure he really tried it out properly and could confirm that it is indeed fully working as it should!


If it happens to have issues already, I don’t think I would really bother unless I could have it for a really good (maybe 200€ I could risk…).
But even if it’s working as it should, reliability is definitely a huge concern!

With second hand gear it is always a possibility, but fortunately so far I have been lucky with the used gear I have been getting, as most of them didn’t really break down anytime soon after getting them (probably got more items that were not as described…).
But in most cases, I didn’t notice many posts mentioning those units were unreliable…

For instance, right now I don’t think I would feel like buying a second hand Waldorf Iridium / Quantum or a current Akai MPC as I’ve seen quite some posts mentioning unreliability issues and I have the feeling if they fail, it will likely be better to just buy a new unit…

I’m afraid that might be the case with the Mackie D8B, since I don’t think I could really do any complicated repairs that involve tracking down an issue on a board and do some soldering…
But replace the battery and do a full ribbon-cable reset should be fine…

So I ask how frequently have you been repairing yours?
And what was the most serious issue you had so far?


I was trying to check some alternatives from that era but sadly all seem considerably deeper than the Mackie, which is a huge problem for me…

I saw that the Yamaha DM2000 is not that much more expensive and I saw a user of both giving it better feedback, but it should be more expensive, and takes considerably more space…

I also saw a Tascam DM4800 with the Firewire option, but I would prefer ADAT so I could just get an RME Digiface USB when I get a new laptop to keep using it…
And it again takes considerably more space…

Honestly, if I would happen to get a new computer now and a friend finally gets me a licence for Pro Tools, the best solution would probably be a C24, as it seems to have similar dimensions to the Mackie D8B, and it would have deeper integration with Pro Tools than the Mackie would!
But on the other hand, it would be much more expensive (especially because I don't have any DB25 cables…) and I’m not sure how long would it work if I wanted to update the MacOSs frequently…

My gut really tells me the Mackie D8B would be a great solution for now…
That is, if it keeps working…
And since it will the center of the studio, it really has to keep working, so I’m really unsure what should I do…

[csp]

Paugui,

What Y-my-R stated about the problems that I had with the desk that I purchased with the intention of donating to an Association in May 2022 is 100% correct and although 60 odd pages long the topic he mentioned is very well worth the read (as is the follow up Saga Part 2 postings) as it details virtually every problem that I think could go wrong with a d8b desk and the reason why about 2 months ago I finally gave up.

I think that if you read both postings it will give you a VERY clear understanding as to what can go wrong with a d8b desk and will give you something to think about before buying the desk on offer --- unless you can get it VERY cheap.

If you do decide to go ahead and purchase, if at all possible (eg distance) I would definitely want to see it actually running and passing audio.

Sort of off topic, if you do change the CMOS battery remember that you will need to re-set the BIOS settings and ensure that you do so 100% correctly and definitely for the correct motherboard --- check the Database for full instructions. Also re your comment about soldering, apart from possibly the rail cap situation, unless you are an expert with years of printed circuit level soldering, I would not be even thinking about going that route --- in my case I have had close to 70 yrs of soldering something on an almost daily basis, but even I would think twice about soldering most of the surface mount type components that are used in the d8b.

But having said all of that negativity I wish you all the best of luck as it really is a great desk and although now more than 20 yreas old it has features that even most of today's most expensive desks do not have --- for example what other desk has inbuilt full automation and plugins such as Final Mix that I believe is excellent, giving CD pre-mastering in your own desk and features like surround sound (although now somewhat outdated with things like Dolby Atmos).

David

[Y-my-R]

Sorry, Paugui, for saying I’d follow up another time, and then didn’t until now. That wasn’t what I had planned.

[redacted my "Synth-Editor on G5" side-quest. That's sorta concluded.
Main problem: USB-MIDI driver handover for Unitor/AMT interfaces to VM not happening - there's an error when I try. Secondary problem in my case "SoundDiver Demo Expired" on my XS-Key. I don't think I can still "reset" the demo period per key command on startup like you could back in the day... but I'll try.
Otherwise, I got 10.5.8 running on the G5 hardware and also on a UTM/qemu in a VM and can run Logic in there (it finds the XS-Key)... but this is not the answer for SoundDiver that I was looking for, because I can't use this at the same time as when I'm using my DAW. New side quest: I'll try a double-ended "dual-host" system on the Unitor8/AMT8 stack I have, next, where my main "ARM64" Mac is connected on one end (host 1), and the "G5 Mac" could be connected at the other end (host 2) of the MIDI system. The manual for these old MIDI interfaces describes that as possible, but who knows if that's still the case in the same way if a modern computer/driver is involved. But if I can get that running, I might run the G5 (or a G4 TiBook I have) as one of the hosts for the MIDI I/O to edit synths via SoundDiver, while running my ARM64 as my main system. I'll still have to find a solution to the SoundDiver License, though... anyway... that's my new side-quest and I'll follow that silently from now on, haha. Sorry for taking up oxygen for this in your thread!).]

Back to your question… I mean… before even clarifying the details of what the D8B can, or cannot do (e.g. HUI mode) - in the end, nobody can tell you if the D8B you’re considering to purchase, will turn out to be a nightmare (e.g. David’s “not quite the end of the saga” threads), or if you’re lucky and the desk ends up running pretty trouble-free out of the gate, or just needs the typical “minor” maintenance (new battery, change BIOS to required settings - (NOT “restore optimal settings”… that’s guaranteed wrong), reseat all the ribbon cables and clean with electronics cleaner, etc… - maybe replace the spinning hard drive with a CF card,,, and do SOMETHING about the noise from the power supply! It’s really too much. So, unless you can somehow put it in another room, you’ll have to replace the fans with quieter ones… and changing the spinning hard drive to a CF card (that makes no noise by nature) also helps.

It’s absolutely a gamble, and that’s yours to take. I can’t make any sort of judgement on the particular D8B unit available for you to buy.

But seriously… if you haven’t heard a D8B run… check out if you can deal with the noise from the power supply, before purchasing. If that’s left stock, then you will not want that rack unit in the same room with you. Unless you enjoy it, when your girlfriend (or BF or whatever you're into... not judging) is blowdrying her(his/their) hair while you’re trying to watch TV, hahaha...