Advice on what to do first with a d8b

[Y-my-R]

Do you happen to have one of those little mainboard computer-speakers, that you could attach to the mainboard in the D8B?

They're less than $1 each, and are really useful to troubleshoot computers that don't boot up. They usually give a beep-code that tells you what's wrong.

The most likely culprit is usually the memory. If you use the "old" board, then there are two different memory banks on it. If you put a memory sim in each of the different banks, it will NOT boot. You can only use one or the other.

Also, the "older" type of memory that has 4 available slots, requires that you install PAIRS of memory into them or it won't work. If I remember right, the newer memory slots, allow to run a single RAM stick, and that's what I'd recommend to do for troubleshooting purposes.
Remove all the RAM, except for one stick in the the "2 slot" memory bank, and try again (...if you had a speaker connected to the board, the beep-code would tell you if it's a memory problem).

If it isn't that, then I'd try a different video card next... doesn't have to be one that works with the D8B to see if the Display comes to live... but it will need the correct card for it to boot fully.

Personally, I wouldn't kill an HDR for the sake of the D8B rack unit. The "old" mainboard works just as well as the new one... it doesn't matter what the processor speed is. I think the only limitation is, that the old board possibly can't boot from a CF-Card or SSD drive... some reported that, but I haven't tried that.

I used to run two D8Bs side-by-side. One with a 166MHz Celeron on the old board, and another with a (I think) 266 MHz Celeron on a newer board. They booted exactly as fast (i.e. turned them on at the same time), and had no performance differences WHATSOEVER. (Some people on here claimed they do... having run them side by side for months with the same amount of RAM in both, makes me beg to differ).

If you have another Rack unit, and you apply to OS hack/crack, then you can just use the other rack unit if it works as it should. The console and rack units are only tied to each other, as long as they're authorized with the original auth codes.

As for if people are still using the HDR... I think plenty of people are using that exclusively with the D8B, still. In some other threads, it appears that some swear by that type of workflow and don't want to use a computer with a DAW.

I personally mostly use a computer with a DAW (Studio One for the most part), together with the D8B, but have it (almost) wired up so I could use it with the HDR alternatively, without switching any cables... (it's a pretty complex setup, that I wouldn't recommend if you're starting out with the D8B, though). I'm more of a "DAW guy", but again, many on here prefer the "analog-style workflow" that you get if using the D8B with an HDR.

The ProBox is NOT software - it's hardware, that translates the data the D8B console generates to "Mackie Control Universal" format or "Mackie HUI" format, and handles the communication between the console hardware and the DAW in the computer.
Basically, it turns your D8B in a 25-fader (24 if using the HUI protocol) DAW controller, by acting like a Mackie Control Universal (or HUI) with 2 8-channel extenders (or a total of 3 HUIs).
The ProBox itself doesn't "record" anything, though. You need to use a DAW for that, that is compatible with either the Mackie Control or the HUI (which is nearly all DAWs).

Anyway... back to the beginning... I'd look at what's going on with your memory, first. Maybe take a pic what you have installed, or try different memory sticks (one at a time in the "2 slot" bank) to see if the D8B is happier with one or the other.

Best of luck!

[captainamerica]

I personally mostly use a computer with a DAW (Studio One for the most part),

I do as well with DP mostly and sometimes Logic and PT

[Phil.c]

Do all my recording and track editing on HDR, all my mixing on D8b, I also use Logic for VST and mixing down to stereo, everyone to their own but I think it a waist to just use a D8b for fader control with DAW?

[captainamerica]

agree Phil....but these are also just "tools" for making music and somewhat personal right? Technology evolves and so do the DAWs of yesterday. And they always get trumped by something faster and more powerful. I know because I still use my Amiga in my studio today, but the DAWs of today are light years ahead of the Amiga DAWs.

IMHO, once you find a workflow that works - one that maximizes your time for creating music and limits the technology maintenance headaches - I think that becomes a good playbook for your workflow…..whether that be “D8b in a box or D8b with a DAW” (a la Dr. Seuss

...but that's just me standing on my soapbox

Cheers

[Y-my-R]

One thing I should have mentioned about choosing how you want to use the D8B is, that it often depends on what I/O cards you have in the D8B, what audio interface you use on your computer, if you're using any outboard gear, and how much extra gear you're willing to purchase to make it all play nice together.

What I often see with new D8B owners on here, is that they don't really have a concept how they will get audio in and out of the DAW computer and to and from the D8B. The ProBox won't help with that, btw.

So, to fully utilize the D8B, you'd have to be able to send 24-channels of audio between an audio interface connected to your computer, and the D8B - ideally bi-directionally. The audio doesn't somehow "magically" get over there (e.g. the ProBox is not for that).

You could of course have fewer than 24-channels go back and forth between DAW and D8B and that's also valid... and depending on how you're using the other inputs/outputs on the D8B, and what you want to use it for, that might be the perfect solution for you (for example, if you have a lot of synths and want to mix them externally and bring a sub-mix into the DAW or something)... but again, it depends on a lot of factors, and HOW you intend to use the D8B.

The nice thing about using the D8B with an HDR, is that no additional audio interface is needed to have 24-channels of audio go between them, as long as both, the D8B and HDR have "matching cards" installed that allow to send audio between them (and cables connected between the cards, haha).

So, IMO, the first question to consider the DAW-route, would be what audio interface you have and what Inputs/Outputs it has... unless money is not an object, and you'd just get an interface with enough I/O to wire it all up.

Also, I agree with Phil that it's a waste to use the D8B as a DAW controller ONLY. But it's a nice option to have (you can switch to DAW control or Mixer mode by adding an external Serial DB25 switch... but that also has some caveats). I think most people using the D8B with a ProBox ONLY, don't have a working rack unit and use the rack only as a power supply... for ProBox/Controller use, the computer-portion of the rack unit doesn't need to work.

[spynmaker]

Thanks for all the response in this thread! It’s really helping me and giving me references to a lot of options!

What I’m wanting to do is just a standard setup. I basically build drums with plugins, and I play the rest of the instruments and sing.
I would also like the option of doing a “live” recording with my band if this is possible. 9 to 12 tracks simultaneously should be enough.

I’ve been recording on this system for close to 10 years with the HDR setup (I worked at this guys studio doing sessions) and I just fell in love with the DSP plugins.
Is there a way to use the DSP plugins through a DAW instead of the Mackie OS? Or can you bounce them to the DAW?
As far as the HDR, What I was originally gonna do was use it as a “ dump” to back up recordings. Would that be a waste for that machine?
Just to be clear, The PROBOX doesn’t handle ANY of the audio input or outputs through the DAW?

Thanks for all the reply’s and interest in helping me get this thing up and running again. It’s greatly appreciated!

Included are some pictures of the D8B inside and pictures of my cards in the console. I also have a matching set of I/O cards for the HDR and console (not installed still the factory plastic)

[arjepsen]

The probox is a tool that lets you use the d8b as a control interface to a daw. When you use the probox, it uploads a custom firmware to the d8b. This means the audio part of the desk is NOT working, when you use the probox.

[spynmaker]

So make sure I understand, I can't use the d8b's channels to record to my daw? Correct?

[Y-my-R]

As arjepsen already said, and as I mentioned further above, the ProBox does NOT do anything related to handling audio that would be recorded to your DAW.

It lets you start the D8B in a mode, that lets you move the faders and knobs on the D8B, and have the faders and knobs in your DAW move in response. No audio passes through the ProBox AT ALL.

The ProBox allows you to use the “Monitoring’ features on the D8B, still - in a similar fashion as the Mackie Big Knob - but it would just pass stereo signals (aka already summed mixes that you would sum elsewhere… not in the D8B) that you feed into the monitor section of the D8B, back out to speakers connected to the D8B (you can switch between different monitors and connected audio sources this way and adjust the volume), but that’s it. There’s no audio going over the USB connection to the computer.

Other than when you said “or sometimes record your band”, IMO you don’t need either the D8B or the HDR to RECORD. For that, either is complete overkill and complicates your recording chain, IMO. If your familiar with the DSP FX in the D8B and want exactly those, then maybe it would be worth it to you… but without wanting to ruffle any feathers on here… a lot has happened in the past 20 years, when it comes to the quality of DAW plug-ins. The D8B is frozen in time at the technological and audio quality standards from the early 2000’s. You can get great results with the D8B, but the plug-ins can’t do anything you couldn’t do with more recent plug-ins in a DAW (…and more often than not, those modern plug-ins will have an edge over those in the D8B). And no - you can’t run the D8B’s built-in FX in a DAW. Not with the ProBox and not without it.

A computer with a DAW and a simple audio interface with 2 pre's and inputs would be enough to build drums inside your DAW and record yourself over that interface (e.g. vocals, then mono guitars. You’ll need 2 inputs to record a stereo source like a keyboard as audio, etc.). Audio interfaces like that start at under $100, and I know people who did entire albums this way (…in fact this is quite common nowadays - at least for electronic music where canned drums are the norm).

IMO, the D8B and HDR make sense, when you need a lot of inputs and several pre-amps at the same time. So, if you want to record “your band”, I assume you mean you would be recording real drums (i.e. typically, you’d need anywhere from around 5 inputs to however many things you want to close-mic on a large kit… up to 12 inputs, if restricted by the pre-amps the D8B has on board)… and if you want to record the rest of the band live along with it, then as many additional inputs as there are players (or more if any of them output in stereo).
If you would NOT record real drums, but just 5 guys playing to a drum computer or something, the D8B would STILL be overkill, IMO. I’d just get an computer audio interface with 8 inputs instead… haven’t looked lately, but those should start around $250 (cheap Behringer or something).

Mixing is another story again. You could mix everything down in the box and without involving the D8B… but if you want to mix a song you composed via the DAW on the D8B, you need those audio channels to get over there, so you need a lot of OUTPUTS on your audio interface. And since your I/O cards are 3x DIO-8, you need an audio interface with ADAT-optical or TDIF (long discontinued) ports. Ideally 3 of those ports, since each handles 8-channels of audio at a time. There’s not a lot of audio interfaces that handle that many ADAT channels at the same time (I don’t think there is one that does 24-channels of TDIF… maybe early MOTU 2408’s or something), so unless you go “Pro” (aka Pro Tools HD/Native or an expanded Lynx Aurora or something), you would need to stack multiple audio interfaces just to reach the needed digital channel count.
That’s why I’m saying that you should have a clear vision HOW you want to use the D8B. Doing some of these things like in a “normal” setup, would require you to buy quite a bit of expensive gear for your DAW computer, to get it to interface with the D8B at the full I/O for the Tape I/Os.

If you don’t already have an audio interface with 8 channels of ADAT on it, then I’d recommend to plan on getting the D8B and the HDR to work together again, the way you had it working before. This way, your workflow will be the same as when you used that setup in another studio for the past 10 years. (Your workflow would be A LOT different, if you’d want to replace the HDR with a DAW… you’d basically have to learn how to use it all over again). You could then use this combo to record your band… and when you’re done, you could even bring the recorded audio over to your DAW for continued processing and “in the box” mixing if you want (…bringing it back to the HDR is a bit trickier). But often it will make more sense to just mix via the D8B/HDR combo and without involving the DAW at all (to keep things simple, and painful file transfers to a minimum) - especially if you also have any outboard FX to tie in. The D8B makes using outboard gear very straight forward (if familiar with standard studio workflows).

I’d probably use the DAW computer separately and switch between them depending on what you’re doing, and transfer the audio recorded on the HDR to the computer as needed… and then plan on expanding your DAW setup to integrate the D8B a bit later, when you have a clearer concept how many channels you need to be sending between D8B and DAW at the same time, and how you would solve this, technically (e.g. lots of I/O on new audio interface).

Now to the technical issues:
You have two memory sims in the “newer” bank of memory and nothing in the old bank. This should be OK, but just to be sure you start with a clean slate, here’s what I’d suggest:
1. Remove ALL the cable connections from the rack unit (e.g. with other gear (in this case an 8-channel MIDI interface), I saw cases were power entered gear the “wrong way” and was stored in a capacitor or something that made the unit malfunction, until the connected device that caused that was disconnected for long enough (a day) and allowed the power to drain from all components)
2. Pull the battery again, and this time, make sure to leave it out for 24 hours (it’s true that 5 mins are usually enough… but it’s not working right now, so lets try leaving it out for longer)
3. Make sure you put the “Clear CMOS” jumper back to how it was originally or remove the jumper completely (but save it), if your not sure about the correct position. If this is in the wrong position, the D8B will not boot and the symptoms would be similar to what you’re describing.
4. For troubleshooting, remove ALL the cards (but remember where they were installed, before).
5. Remove one of the two memory sticks (I think the slot closer to the processor is the one you want to use if there’s only one).

After it sat like that for 24 hours do this:

6. Put a new battery in the D8B (unless you recently did, already… putting the old one back in is an invitation to having to do all of this another time)
7. Put ONLY the video card back in. None of the other ones.
8. Connect your monitor to the video card, as well as your keyboard and mouse and power. Nothing else. Power on your monitor-screen to make sure you’d see any output from the D8b right away, and don’t miss it if your monitor would only start doing it’s power-on cycle when the D8B start booting up.
9. Have your camera ready and power on the D8B. If anything appears on the screen, take a picture and share it here.

If you DO get any out put on the screen this time, then you’ll need to go into the BIOS again to change the settings to what’s described int he database (you need to be very exact with that. If you’re not, we’re going to be going in circles here for all time).

If you still didn’t get any output on your monitor, switch out that single memory stick with the other one you have, and try again.

Let’s try all of that first, and see how far you get. Hopefully this will bring us back to you seeing some sort of error-message that we can base further troubleshooting on. If you still don’t get any output on the screen, it’s time to get one of those little mainboard speakers, so you can listen to what error beep-code the mainboard outputs (3x long beeps followed by a pause is usually a memory problem if I recall right… but lets see, maybe this won’t be necessary).

OK, I hope I didn’t forget to respond to anything you asked, but lets start over with this sort of thing.

…If you already have the other rack unit, though… have you tried connecting a monitor and keyboard to that and power it on (you don’t need to connect the D8B console to try if the rack powers on, at least)? Maybe if you don’t want to jump through all the hoops above, it would make more sense to just apply the crack to that one, and start using it, while casually troubleshooting the other rack unit whenever you have some extra time.

Sorry about the novel… I know I’m way too wordy, but type as fast as I talk, so I was basically just rambling on for a while over here

[RJH_MUSIC]

You can record MMC info and MIDI info directly into the DAW using MIDI Cables. If you want to record audio, you would need to route the outputs from the d8b into an audio interface to get the audio into your DAW. For VSTi, generated audio generated within your DAW, you send the audio interface outputs to channel inputs on the d8b. The problem there is if you have the outputs of the d8b being routed to the Audio interface and into your DAW, you will create a feedback loop if you do not remember to mute the input channels of what you input into the d8b. For example, I have an Apollo 8 Audio interface in my setup. I connect MIC's for vocals to channel inputs 1-4 on the d8b and assign the the channels to LR (Master Outs). The Master outputs of the d8b are connected to the Inputs 1-2 of the Apollo 8 which brings them into the DAW. The master outputs of the Apollo 8 are connected to the d8b input channels 15-16, (Vocals). The remaining 8 outputs of the Apollo 8 are connected to input channels 17-14 of the d8b (VSTi from DAW) . Channels 15 - 24 of the d8b are routed to the BUS outputs and connected to another master mixer. If you are only using one mixer, then you can route the vocals to Control Room outputs instead of Master Outs and then use the Master Outputs to final recording and speakers, instead of using the BUS outputs.