Newbie setup help PLEASE!!!!

[spmonkay]

Also, Would any of these be ok to use as the switch?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_from ... x&_sacat=0

[Y-my-R]

You can still buy a DB25 serial switch, sure. I got mine at Frys Electronics at the time, but had to go to a few locations to find one. It's important, that the switch (and all connected cables) have all 25 contacts connected 1:1 though, which isn't always the case, from what I understand (especially when trying to re-use old cables that were meant for a different purpose).

You will NOT be able to use the effects built into the D8B, when only using it as a controller with the ProBox.

...and to clarify, there are no "Apogee FX". The clock card and some audio interface cards were made by Apogee, but this is not the brand of the FX "plug-ins" that run on the D8B.

You can only use the built-in FX on the D8B, for audio that runs through it. So, if that's your goal, then you DO have to use it as a mixer.

As you pointed out, there's different opinions if it's worth running nearly 20 year-old plug-ins on the D8B hardware, or if plug-ins you can run on your computer are better, because newer. I personally don't really use the FX/Dynamics in the D8B much... but there's tons of people on this forum, who I think will argue that it's still worthwhile to use those... so, your milage may vary.

To be able to use anything other than the channel compressors/EQs etc. on the D8B, you also have to have MFX and/or UFX DSP cards installed. Do you? There are 4 slots for those, and the two different DSP card types (MFX/UFX) run different types of plug-ins. MFX is more like "bread and butter", while UFX runs stuff like Auto-tune, etc.

Anyway... hopefully this clears things up a little bit. Cheers!

[Y-my-R]

As for the switches that work... there isn't really an easy way to tell from looking at them.

I just bought mine and tried it, and was lucky, I guess. Munkustrap, the guy who makes the ProBox, pointed out to me that not all of these switch boxes and cables have a 1:1 pin-out, so I guess there's always a bit of a risk. But they're not THAT pricey... so, I'd just get one and try. That's what I did.

[angelotaylor]

Are the fx and channels strips worth going to the trouble to use? Ive heard mixed reviews?

Ok! This mix - produced with D8B FX only, exclude autopanner. You can listen and make your own conclusions about whether you should use these effects.

Angelo Taylor - Energize Me

Software "mixer" - will not be able to getting the same result never. The "new" - is not always "the best".

[spmonkay]

sounds sweet!! I will mainly be recording blues rock with some synth added in. Kind of mark lanegan solo stuff.

I have an issue with todays music as I find its all a little too perfect. A lot of it I find over produced. Im sure I'm gonna get some flack for saying that. This was kind of why I like the idea of using the hardware fx other than the software as I'm hoping it may stop me from adding too much of lots of things. I dunno, I just find when you have so many fx plugins at your disposal its easy to get carried away.

Just my thoughts. I will say though that that track sounds nice and crisp and alive. I find that a lot of music now is so produced it sucks the soul out of it. I like music to sound, I dunno, kind of raw, like its almost a jam, or the first time its ever been played. I dunno its hard to explain.

[angelotaylor]

sounds sweet!! I will mainly be recording blues rock with some synth added in. Kind of mark lanegan solo stuff.

I have an issue with todays music as I find its all a little too perfect. A lot of it I find over produced. Im sure I'm gonna get some flack for saying that. This was kind of why I like the idea of using the hardware fx other than the software as I'm hoping it may stop me from adding too much of lots of things. I dunno, I just find when you have so many fx plugins at your disposal its easy to get carried away.

Just my thoughts. I will say though that that track sounds nice and crisp and alive. I find that a lot of music now is so produced it sucks the soul out of it. I like music to sound, I dunno, kind of raw, like its almost a jam, or the first time its ever been played. I dunno its hard to explain.

This track - just a demo of D8B sound My music - it is New Age, and JMJ-like electronics. And it is - oldschool, therefore I using only hardware processing. In every music genre - we have reference sound, and I working to be closer to reference.

[spmonkay]

So just to clarify for future reference if I were to purchase both of these, this would enable me to use the d8b as I would like? As a daw controller and also make use of the channels and fx?

https://www.bax-shop.co.uk/external-aud ... gIkL_D_BwE

and either of these with the Motu midi express the preferred but also the more expensive route!!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/M-Audio-1-Out- ... B00007JRBM

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTU-MIDI-Ex ... SwoeVd295t

Thank you all again for your help and advice!

[angelotaylor]

So just to clarify for future reference if I were to purchase both of these, this would enable me to use the d8b as I would like? As a daw controller and also make use of the channels and fx?

https://www.bax-shop.co.uk/external-aud ... gIkL_D_BwE

and either of these with the Motu midi express the preferred but also the more expensive route!!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/M-Audio-1-Out- ... B00007JRBM

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MOTU-MIDI-Ex ... SwoeVd295t

Thank you all again for your help and advice!

I'm not sure about the cable, but Yes. In practice, I had problems with cables. I don't know, maybe I have some low-quality ones. I dont know about control surface with logic, since in this case - we have very limited functionality, as mentioned above, but it seems, that D8B has internal automation tools, in case, if conditions is a external reference position and a reference sample rate exist. But You need Big Ben for it, because it provide better reference clock, than any external audio interfaces. Our russian professionals in the russian music industry - told me about this point as a very important nuance. In russia, we have some other standards of reference quality! I always listen to their advice and have never regretted it. I dont have a Apogee Big Ben, but I have a Digidesign USD Sync Driver, as reference clock source, but it controlled from Pro Tools Mix TDM! Y-my-R helped me to setup it! Big Ben should be as Master Clock. So, Your sync setup may be:
From Big Ben WC Out ->MOTU LP32 WC IN;
MOTU LP32 WC Out -> D8B WC In
You will need 75 ohm cable for sync links with BNC connectors.
So, in case with the motu midi interface, You have very precise reference midi position and 8 midi ins and outs for few synths simultaneous control. In Russia, mani producers now use old Pro Tools Mix TDM 5.x, with the old Mac Os 9 in Power PC, for sync and reference positions purpose. It is - old. But in practice, it work and sound more better, than any "modern better equipment"! I will show You example!

This tracks produced with the Pro Tools Mix TDM 5.x, on PowerPC with Mac OS 9.22 - as DAW. (We dont talk about other hardware studio setup!!!) I know engineer, hwo recorded it! This songs in the russian, but just listen the sound!

Valeria - Good Morning!

Valeria - The Blizzard

Valeria - Telephone

Valeria - You are far beyond the horizon!

Valeria - About the past.

Valeria - In Half

Quality sound - has many technical nuances, as reference midi position, reference clock, reference reverbs and delays, real quality dynamic processing, and all other processing. Not always - plugins - it good choice. In most cases - no. In most cases, plugins - it is for home use only. For real sound quality, You need expensive hardware equipment, ton hall, and separate engineering room. In Your situation, Mackie D8B - can be "core of Your sound". But You need to provide all other references.
So, The "new" - is not always "the best".

Sorry for my bad English!

[Y-my-R]

If I was you, rather than spending a lot of money upfront, I'd just start with what doesn't cost anything, and then take it step by step from there.

For a first step - just to make sure: Your D8B is booting up fully, and is passing audio, without problems or noises (e.g. the dreaded rail cap pulsing, etc.), correct? Before I'd do anything else, I'd make sure of that.

Next, I'd try it with the ProBox, because you already have it, and can test if that works, and if you like it. You don't need any additional MIDI connection to just use the D8B as a controller with the ProBox. Even if that's not how you are planning to use the D8B primarily, it doesn't cost anything to try because you already have everything that is needed.
There's more info over on the ProBox side of the forum, on how to set that up (incl. me, walking a few people through that). The ProBox manual is of course also useful.

With the ProBox alone, you can't use the D8B for audio at the same time (aside from some analog pass-through features in the monitor section). To be able to use both, you'll still need to get that DB25 switch (that was missing from your shopping list, to use the D8B as a mixer AND as a 24-channel controller at the same time).

But anyway, once you got it working with the ProBox, that's where I'd disconnect the DB25 connector from the ProBox again, re-connect the DB25 between the D8B console and the rack unit, and start setting it up as a mixer.

For that, I'd first set the D8B up with whatever audio interface it is, that you currently have. Just to get your feet wet, and so that you know for sure that the D8B is what you want in your setup.
If you don't have a word clock out connector on your current soundcard, then you can just use the D8B as word clock master, connect either one of the ADAT outputs on the D8B to your ADAT input on your soundcard, and set the soundcard to sync to the digital input you just connected.
If you don't have an ADAT port on your current soundcard, then you can use the S/PDIF out on the D8B, and connect it to the S/PDIF in on your soundcard... but then you'll only transfer 2 channels digitally, instead of 8. The D8B should then still be set to Word Clock master, and your soundcard to Word Clock slave (from incoming S/PDIF).

If you run into any problems with that, you would run into the same problems once you bought a bigger audio interface. So, this should be good practice, and a preparation for "upgrading" later.

For the D8B to receive audio, pass it through the D8B's FX, and send it back out to an ADAT (or analog) output, this is all you need. The transport buttons will not work yet, and the time display will always show 00:00:00:00:00, but at least you get an idea how the routing works, and can explore the desk a bit.

Once you got that working, that's where I'd add a MIDI interface, so you can get the transport buttons working, and the D8B chase the time-code from the computer. But I wouldn't even buy the MIDI interface, until you reached this point.

About MIDI "cables" - I used to work at M-Audio Tech Support many years ago, so I know that one works. That is, as long as you have the 'newer' version that is class compliant (i.e. works with Windows/Mac built-in drivers, without requiring to install any). The technology in the Uno is no different than in the 2x2 or 2x4, etc. - so, it's not really "cable" vs. interface. If you buy some super-cheap off-brand "cable" interface, you could run into problems, sure. And personally, I'd just stay away from anything made by Behringer... I had a couple of bad experiences with their gear, and would not be surprised if their MIDI interfaces don't do SysEx or other "advanced" MIDI stuff.

As for the new audio interface... sure, that one looks like it should work, but again, I'd get everything I'm mentioning above working in the order described. Otherwise, you might end up with a collection of paper weights, if it doesn't work in the way you'd like. And you can "test" how it works, and what's necessary to configure it, without spending big money upfront.

Not to discourage you, but there have been a few people on this forum, who gave up on the whole thing, after a few rounds of troubleshooting. So, you first want to be sure that this setup really is for you.

The only thing about that audio interface is, that I'd expect it to deliver around 10-12 ms of latency, round-trip. Possibly worse, when the Mac Mini runs hot, and it is likely to run hotter, when you're having it process more audio streams (i.e. passing 24 channels of audio via ADAT through the interface). If that happens, you'll have to increase the buffer size, which increases the latency... and then you are getting into an area, where you might not be happy about the long delay, and will have to think about getting an eGPU (external graphics card + enclosure) for your Mac Mini.

Btw., is the Mac Mini you have a Thunderbolt model, or an older model that still had FireWire? I think you said you still use a FireWire interface, right? If so, you can't use an eGPU, and would need a new computer... and then I'd rather look at an iMac, because the built in video card is better and doesn't overheat the rest of the computer. Or a new Mac Pro... but that's crazy expensive.

I won't comment on music shared, and if that's achievable via plug-ins on the computer or not. I'm typing messages that are too long to begin with, and don't want to start a philosophical discussion on top of it. Then it would REALLY get too long.

...oh, last note... a Big Ben or other Master Clock is another thing that I wouldn't buy from the get go. Make sure you get it all working first, and see if it's enough for your purposes (e.g. after adding the audio interface you want). Adding an external Master Clock later, is easy to do. And again, if you only need to sync the D8B and the computer together, a simple word clock cable (and possibly a word clock terminator on the computer end, depending on if your audio interface internally terminates or not) is all you need to get started.

Anyway... again, try with the ProBox first, since you don't need any new hardware for that. If you get stuck somewhere, after looking for instructions in the manual and on the ProBox side of the forum, post again with details what you did and what doesn't work, and we'll pick it up from there, again.

Best of luck!

[angelotaylor]

As always - very adequate advice! I totally agree!