D8B as masterclock for Pro Tools Mix TDM

[angelotaylor]

Hello!

I have a problem. My console - is not equipped with Apogee Word Clock Card. I need to buy one, may be somebody trade me one unit? I live in Russia, You can write me to pm!

...But now, for a limited time, I need setup my console as reference master for my Pro Tools Mix TDM system. I have a USD Sync. How to setup it as slave from D8b? Please, help!

[Y-my-R]

I never really did any serious work on an old Pro Tools Mix TDM system. Last time I even sat down on one was about 20 years ago. I also never used the Universal Slave Driver, so maybe someone else with a good memory on here has better info... but here's what I think, after taking a quick look at these two pages:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/digital-audio-clocking-pro-tools

http://archive.digidesign.com/support/docs/USD_Guide_501.pdf

I think the easiest option would be to forget about the USD for digital clock purposes, and just connect the S/PDIF out on the D8B, to the S/PDIF in on your converter box for Pro Tools (e.g. 882 I/O, 888 I/O, etc. - I think they all have that, but haven't seen one in a long time).
After that, configure Pro Tools to sync to S/PDIF as shown in the screen shot in the Sound-On-Sound article, setting it to your S/PDIF input for Pro Tools.
Every D8B comes with S/PDIF In/Out connectors. I don't think any audio signal really needs to be transmitted for this - just connecting D8B S/PDIF out to 882/888 S/PDIF in, and setting Pro Tools to sync to it, should do it.

If you really want to use the Universal Slave Driver for sync, somehow, then I think your only option is via a Word Clock "BNC" connection. The USD itself can't sync to the clock transmitted by a different digital audio connection, such as S/PDIF or AES/EBU. (But you could still use the USD for "time-based" sync, such as MIDI Time Code, etc. - but that doesn't help with the digital clock sync)
If you have an expansion card with a BNC connector on it in the D8B (e.g. the DIO.8), you can try to connect the BNC on it to the USD Word Clock Input (also on BNC), and set it to sync to that input. If it finds the clock from the D8B this way, great! (If it doesn't find it, you might have to add "T-Pieces" and "Terminators" on both ends, as well). However, I'm not sure if the BNC connector on these expansion cards even transmits word clock or not. I never had to use it like that. So, that's more for a test.

Out of curiosity - I get that you may not have access to the hardware you want in Russia... but if you have a newer computer... like, from the last 10 years or so - it's going to run more plug-ins and will be more flexible than a Pro Tools TDM system. Even if you have a couple of DSP farm cards. Do you need to load some old sessions, or why are you trying to get such an old Pro Tools system running, that doesn't give any benefit, compared to newer computers with a standard audio interface?

Also, I can't speak for the 888, but had a 882/20 interface many years back. I returned it twice, thinking it's defective, but it turned out that the converter quality was so horrible, with clearly audible quantization noise, that I found it unusable. Any more recent audio interface will give you better quality than an 882 I/O.
(For that matter, I also had a later 96 I/O on a Pro Tools HD system, and also found the converters too abrasive... but I guess people still made records with that, somehow).

Best of luck!

[angelotaylor]

Thank You for answers, Y-My-R!

I dont love the newer PC systems with ASIO - its can not produce normal commercial quality sound, Pro Tools TDM working on the superclock (it is word clock*256), and as a result - more accurate sound between tracks - with no any latency and no any "soaping" sound . General point to using Pro Tools systems - it is superb accuracy of synchronisation, but no power of CPU, or plugins. I`m - "hardware boy")) But, I use hybrid technology - I use VST synths, and Cubase - as host and midi seq - with ny hardware synths. And I need out my VST synths from Cubase to D8B. Also, I want to using SPDIF IN - at the same time with the ADAT IN`s, but I dont find the solution. Also one problem - I can not activate phones outn in D8B, I read the forum, trying to apply some solutions, but with no result. I make commercial instrumental music for tv and cinema, and purchase the console for serious works. If You can help me with my questions - I would be very grateful to You, and someone, hwo can help! Thank You!

[Y-my-R]

Let's go about this one problem at a time, or it will get too confusing. Let's get the D8B and your Pro Tools system synced up first. Have you tried what I suggested, yet?

Generally, though, if all the digitally connected equipment you are using is NOT synced to the same clock source then you can't really use different types of digital inputs and outputs between different devices at the same time (e.g. S/PDIF and ADAT). At least you'd get problems such as pops and clicks if you'd try. Older Pro Tools systems might also have a limitation when it comes to that (or share the same optical port for S/PDIF and ADAT... but I think the S/PDIF on the 882/888 units was RCA), but I don't remember. You'd have to read up on that online.
So, again, let's get the D8B and Pro Tools system synced up first, then we'll look at the other questions you had.

If the D8B is clock master, then you will NOT take advantage of the good old Digidesign "Superclock", though. In that case, the Pro Tools system will sync to the D8B's "regular" Word Clock, that runs at either 44.1 kHz or 48 kHz. So, that advantage is gone (and overrated anyway, IMO).

Someone else here may be able to answer this, but IF you had an Apogee Word Clock card in your D8B, it might not even be able to sync up correctly, if you'd have the "Superclock" active and sent to the D8B via a Word Clock cable - not sure.
As far as I know, external Master Clock devices, such as Apogee's Big Ben DO support the Superclock, but have the option to configure individual Word Clock outputs to send a regular clock signal at 44.1 or 48 kHz instead, that devices without Superclock can understand. So, the Apogee Big Ben should be able to run your Pro Tools system on Superclock, while also outputting a lower version of the signal to sync up something like the D8B. Not sure if you can do that directly between a TDM/Mix interface (or the Universal Slave Driver) and the D8B.

What Converter Box are you actually using with your TDM cards?

About your opinion that an old Pro Tools TDM system still sounds better than more modern systems... if you like it, great! Let your ears be the judge!

I happened to have worked at Avid for a few years, though, and they gave me a HD2 system for free (that's why I had the 96 I/O converter box). After trying to use it for a few weeks, I started HATING "digital" because the sound was so abrasive, stopped working on music, and only listened to pure analog signal chains for a while (e.g. turntables to phono-pre, to active speakers). After trying a budget M-Audio interface I had lying around, I noticed that this wasn't even nearly as abrasive sounding. So, I didn't actually hate "digital". I just hated the converters in the Avid 96 I/O (I was told the 192 I/O converters and newer HD I/O converters are much better sounding, but haven't worked with them myself, so I wouldn't know).

Many years before that, I had a Digidesign Session 8 System that used an 882/20 (same as what Pro Tools TDM/Mix uses out of the box), plus an ADAT Interface/Bridge and two ADATs, for 24 channels of I/O. Even the ADAT converters sounded better (if using the ELCO multi-connector to get balanced I/O) than those in the 882/20, so I recorded through those if I didn't need all the channels at once, and transferred the signal digitally into the computer afterwards (this was possible via the Digidesign ADAT Interface - albeit in real-time. You had to play back the whole recording (8 Tracks at a time) at regular speed to transfer to the computer... but the better sound was worth it).

As mentioned, the 882 generated clearly audible quantization noise... a low volume "digital sizzle" that was always present and could even be heard on my relatively noisy analog D&R Series 2000 console I used back then (...and even more so on the Alesis X2 console I replaced the D&R with a bit later... but the Alesis board had it's own set of (grounding) problems).

Personally, I do NOT agree with what you said about the sound of an old Pro Tools TDM system, though, sorry. Even budget converters in simple (but modern) $100 audio interfaces usually sound better than the 882 in my opinion, and definitely don't have audible quantization noise (same goes for the 888 since it uses the same converters as the 882 from what I read today). As mentioned, I thought my 882/20 was broken and returned it twice... but the replacement sounded the same (I even got the power supply replaced, thinking it might have been that - but no). So, the sizzling was part of the 882/20 sound

If you are using one of those Apogee or Prism converter boxes that were available for Pro Tools TDM/Mix systems back then, then I wouldn't know how they sound. Never got a chance to try them. But they're most certainly better than a stock 882 or 888. Not sure how those hold up against modern converters, though.

But again... if you like it, by all means, keep using it.

I also tried to use Cubase XT 3.0 with the DAE (Digidesign Audio Engine) back then with the Digidesign Session 8 system and always had problems with that. Wherever I made edits, it created a click (it didn't find the zero crossing, even if I had turned the "find zero crossing" feature on in Cubase), and there was no solution. That's why I switched to Logic Audio 2.4 in the late 90's, because Cubase on Digidesign Hardware just didn't work right. Logic Audio 2.4 supported DAE, too, but had it's own problems, so I eventually moved away from Digidesign hardware altogether, since I was just not a fan of Session 8 (or Pro Tools for that matter). The MIDI options in Pro Tools in those old versions were a joke, compared to what other DAWs like Cubase or Logic were doing.
A bit later, Digidesign stopped supporting the use of other DAWs with the DAE altogether, until about 2008 or so, where Pro Tools was opened up to M-Audio devices first, and later to any brand of audio interface.

What version of Cubase are you using with the TDM/Mix system? I thought DAE support kinda ended with Cubase 3.0, no? But I didn't pay attention to that much anymore, when I moved away from Cubase back then.

...and in terms of latency, I use a PreSonus Quantum audio interface that gives me under 1 ms latency when using Studio One. If you look at the specs for the old TDM chips, the latency is higher in those (...even though the claim is that they're 0 latency... the hardware chip actually DOES introduce a small amount of latency, too).

So, overall... if you like your system and you're having fun with it and get good results, great! But it really isn't a match for modern hardware anymore, in my opinion, sorry!

Having said that - I wouldn't use the D8B, if I wouldn't have a thing for old hardware. So, I think I do get the excitement of resurrecting an old recording system and using it again
I keep several generations of computers around to do exactly that (old G4 Laptop with OS9, old G5 Tower, Pentium with ISA slots (like in the D8B computer), etc.

Anyway... let me know if syncing your Pro Tools TDM rig to the D8B's S/PDIF output worked. Then we'll take it from there.

Again, best of luck!

[angelotaylor]

Let's go about this one problem at a time, or it will get too confusing. Let's get the D8B and your Pro Tools system synced up first. Have you tried what I suggested, yet?

Generally, though, if all the digitally connected equipment you are using is NOT synced to the same clock source then you can't really use different types of digital inputs and outputs between different devices at the same time (e.g. S/PDIF and ADAT). At least you'd get problems such as pops and clicks if you'd try. Older Pro Tools systems might also have a limitation when it comes to that (or share the same optical port for S/PDIF and ADAT... but I think the S/PDIF on the 882/888 units was RCA), but I don't remember. You'd have to read up on that online.
So, again, let's get the D8B and Pro Tools system synced up first, then we'll look at the other questions you had.

If the D8B is clock master, then you will NOT take advantage of the good old Digidesign "Superclock", though. In that case, the Pro Tools system will sync to the D8B's "regular" Word Clock, that runs at either 44.1 kHz or 48 kHz. So, that advantage is gone (and overrated anyway, IMO).

Someone else here may be able to answer this, but IF you had an Apogee Word Clock card in your D8B, it might not even be able to sync up correctly, if you'd have the "Superclock" active and sent to the D8B via a Word Clock cable - not sure.
As far as I know, external Master Clock devices, such as Apogee's Big Ben DO support the Superclock, but have the option to configure individual Word Clock outputs to send a regular clock signal at 44.1 or 48 kHz instead, that devices without Superclock can understand. So, the Apogee Big Ben should be able to run your Pro Tools system on Superclock, while also outputting a lower version of the signal to sync up something like the D8B. Not sure if you can do that directly between a TDM/Mix interface (or the Universal Slave Driver) and the D8B.

What Converter Box are you actually using with your TDM cards?

About your opinion that an old Pro Tools TDM system still sounds better than more modern systems... if you like it, great! Let your ears be the judge!

I happened to have worked at Avid for a few years, though, and they gave me a HD2 system for free (that's why I had the 96 I/O converter box). After trying to use it for a few weeks, I started HATING "digital" because the sound was so abrasive, stopped working on music, and only listened to pure analog signal chains for a while (e.g. turntables to phono-pre, to active speakers). After trying a budget M-Audio interface I had lying around, I noticed that this wasn't even nearly as abrasive sounding. So, I didn't actually hate "digital". I just hated the converters in the Avid 96 I/O (I was told the 192 I/O converters and newer HD I/O converters are much better sounding, but haven't worked with them myself, so I wouldn't know).

Many years before that, I had a Digidesign Session 8 System that used an 882/20 (same as what Pro Tools TDM/Mix uses out of the box), plus an ADAT Interface/Bridge and two ADATs, for 24 channels of I/O. Even the ADAT converters sounded better (if using the ELCO multi-connector to get balanced I/O) than those in the 882/20, so I recorded through those if I didn't need all the channels at once, and transferred the signal digitally into the computer afterwards (this was possible via the Digidesign ADAT Interface - albeit in real-time. You had to play back the whole recording at regular speed to transfer to the computer... but the better sound was worth it).

As mentioned, the 882 generated clearly audible quantization noise... a low volume "digital sizzle" that was always present and could even be heard on my relatively noisy analog D&R Series 2000 console I used back then (...and even more so on the Alesis X2 console I replaced the D&R with a bit later... but the Alesis board had it's own set of (grounding) problems).

Personally, I do NOT agree with what you said about the sound of an old Pro Tools TDM system, though, sorry. Even budget converters in simple (but modern) $100 audio interfaces usually sound better than the 882 in my opinion, and definitely don't have audible quantization noise (same goes for the 888 since it uses the same converters as the 882 from what I read today). As mentioned, I thought my 882/20 was broken and returned it twice... but the replacement sounded the same (I even got the power supply replaced, thinking it might have been that - but no). So, the sizzling was part of 882/20 sound

If you are using one of those Apogee or Prism converter boxes that were available for Pro Tools TDM/Mix systems back then, then I wouldn't know how they sound. Never got a chance to try them. But they're most certainly better than a stock 882 or 888. Not sure how those hold up against modern converters, though.

But again... if you like it, by all means, keep using it.

I also tried to use Cubase XT 3.0 with the DAE (Digidesign Audio Engine) back then with the Digidesign Session 8 system and always had problems with that. Wherever I made edits, it created a click (it didn't find the zero crossing, even if I had turned the "find zero crossing" feature on in Cubase), and there was no solution. That's why I switched to Logic Audio 3 in the late 90's, because Cubase on Digidesign Hardware just didn't work right. Logic Audio 3 supported DAE, too, but had it's own problems, so I eventually moved away from Digidesign hardware altogether, since I was just not a fan of Session 8 (or Pro Tools for that matter). The MIDI options in Pro Tools in those old versions were a joke, compared to what other DAWs like Cubase or Logic were doing.
A bit later, Digidesign stopped supporting the use of other DAWs with the DAE altogether, until about 2008 or so, where Pro Tools was opened up to M-Audio devices first, and later to any brand of audio interface.

What version of Cubase are you using with the TDM/Mix system? I thought DAE support kinda ended with Cubase 3.0, no? But I didn't pay attention to that much anymore, when I moved away from Cubase back then.

...and in terms of latency, I use a PreSonus Quantum audio interface that gives me under 1 ms latency when using Studio One. If you look at the specs for the old TDM chips, the latency is higher in those (...even though the claim is that they're 0 latency... the hardware chip actually DOES introduce a small amount of latency, too).

So, overall... if you like your system and you're having fun with it and get good results, great! But it really isn't a match for modern hardware anymore, in my opinion, sorry!

Having said that - I wouldn't use the D8B, if I wouldn't have a thing for old hardware. So, I think I do get the excitement of resurrecting an old recording system and using it again
I keep several generations of computers around to do exactly that (old G4 Laptop with OS9, old G5 Tower, Pentium with ISA slots (like in the D8B computer), etc.

Anyway... let me know if syncing your Pro Tools TDM rig to the D8B's S/PDIF output worked. Then we'll take it from there.

Again, best of luck!

Thank You for the answers. I will answer for the list.

1. Converters. I have 2 888, and 1 ADAT BRIDGE . You right about sounds 888 - is the not the best. I bought ,my D8B - for sound and I really like the result. I will by Apogee Sync Card soon, I find one unit on ebay, I need only waiting for my paycheck (3 august), and I will pay from my pay-pall.

2. Pro Tools system. Yes, it oldy hardware. But my unit worked perfectly - no any problems. Probably, Pro Tools systems is very very sensitive to computer hardware configuration. I haven`t tried it yet for syncing with D8B, because I've been trying to get sound into my headphones all day with no any result (hardware fault???). I have 3 TDM boards in my Pro Tools, they also worked perfectly. In the USD, I have a word clock IN. Probably, USD must generate super clock to Pro Tools, in the light WC from D8B, and this will not affect the superblock in any way. But Apogee WC card for D8B will make problem not exist.

3. My DAW. More correctly - my setup: Pro Tools - as the sync MASTER. It give wc out to other gear. I have a second powerful computer for VST plugins, with an audio interface, with onboard word clock in/out`s. From USD sync, I have out wc, and input it to second PC audio interface to wc IN, in audio driver settings, I have WC SYNC button active. It gets reference clock from USD. As DAW, I have a Cubase Pro 10.5 in slave mode from Pro Tools. With the MIDI Time Code sync. Its worked perfectly!

I don`t use the Pro Tools for "classical" multitracking. I work with submixes. Pro Tools it is only "tape machine" for submixes, wich I get in my console. I do all the processing inside the console - not inside Pro Tools. Pro Tools - only records the result from mixer digital main outs. After that, I do the bouncing inside Pro Tools in real time.

I need input 24 channels into my console from PC with VST`s, and out only stereo master to Pro Tools, but now, I have only one ADAT out from second PC, with only 8 channels. But it only one variant of the recording technology. Reason - I do not want to any mixing inside Cubase! Only, inside the console, and master out to other external recorder (Pro Tools). Because, it utilizing VERI different mathematical algo for the mixing.

I will try today to sync D8B with ADAT BRIDGE via USD Sync and repot You about results!

[angelotaylor]

Anyway... let me know if syncing your Pro Tools TDM rig to the D8B's S/PDIF output worked. Then we'll take it from there.

Again, best of luck!

Good Morning!

I trying to out spdif out of D8B to 888/24`s SPDIF IN. In Pro Tools setup, I select SPDIF as sync source. All working perfectly - without any sound anomaly! I`m out my foobar2000 with the digital out fro, PC to console, and fro, console - outing it to 888 SPDIF IN. It`s OK! Foobar 2000 - playing perfectly! After, I backing syng source to "internal" in the Pro Tools Setup. All OK! No any soud anomaly! ...But MIDI sync - is not working(( Ok, We need to waiting the Apogee Word Clock Card!

[Y-my-R]

Hi Angelo,

Great to hear the digital sync and audio transmission is working!

Do I understand correctly from your earlier post, that you run two computers (in addition to the D8B)? One with the Pro Tools TDM/Mix system for use as a Tape Machine, and another for use with Cubase and plug-ins, etc?

If Foobar2000 is playing back from the Pro Tools computer, then it makes sense that it's all working as expected, when playing Foobar out the digital (S/PDIF) output, and sending that to the S/PDIF input on the D8B.
That's because the D8B is Master, the Pro Tools computer is slave, and thus a digital signal sent back from the Pro Tools computer to the D8B is already in sync and will work correctly.

However, if Foobar2000 is running on the OTHER PC that is running Cubase, and you are outputting from the digital S/PDIF output on the audio interface on that one, to the S/PDIF input on the D8B, then you're feeding an "unsynced" digital audio signal back into the D8B.

This might sound OK for some time, if all the devices are set to the same sample rate, but you will most likely get a digital dropout every once in a while (sometimes even just every few minutes), since the clock on the different devices don't run in sync, drift over time, and when they drifted enough to be off by nearly a sample, will skip a sample and cause a click.

So, IF Foobar is running on the other computer, then you still need to feed a digital connection from either the D8B or the 888 (or ADAT Interface) to a digital input on the Audio Interface of the 2nd computer, and set it to sync as "slave" to the incoming digital input.

This way, all 3 computers would then run off of the D8Bs clock, and you shouldn't get any clicks - not even after a few minutes.

You might not have heard clicks yet, if the 2nd computer isn't digitally synced... but it might happen for the first time when you're in the middle of running an important session. So, if it isn't synced already, I'd highly recommend to still do that.

MIDI Sync doesn't really have anything to do with the Apogee Clock Card. That card is only for Word Clock sync and nothing else.
I just looked at a picture of the back of the USD - it has a port that is labeled "MTC out", that looks a little like it could be a MIDI port (but it didn't look exactly right). If this is MIDI, you could try to connect that to the MIDI input on the D8B... but this would still be an incomplete setup to get everything on the D8B working the way it should.

To set it up properly, you will need a MIDI Output AND a MIDI Input on the Pro Tools computer, so the D8B can receive the MIDI Time Code (MTC) signal from the Pro Tools computer, and the Pro Tools computer can also receive Start/Stop commands, etc. from the Transport controls on the D8B. I hope this older version of Pro Tools can be set up to respond to generic "MMC" commands (MIDI Machine Control... that's the MIDI protocol for such Start/Stop commands, etc.).
I think to remember that older Pro Tools versions were limited in the devices that they accepted as a control surface, and basically only allowed for HUI, or Digidesign manufacturered controllers, such as the Control8/Control24, etc. (and maybe the CL Cooper controller that was popular back then).

Do you have an additional MIDI interface on the Pro Tools computer, that gives you a MIDI In and a MIDI Out, that you could connect to the D8B's MIDI In/Out for this?

Btw., if your version of Pro Tools does NOT work with generic MMC commands from a non-Digidesign controller, then you could at least switch the D8B into HUI mode to use the transport controls and Faders 17-24 to control Pro Tools. I "think" this was already possible in older Pro Tools versions.

Anyway, if you have MIDI I/O on the Pro Tools computer, try to hook that up to the D8B (MIDI out to MIDI in, and vice versa), and then configure Pro Tools to use these ports for an external controller (forgot where that is, but if you can't find it, I can look it up - I don't have Pro Tools installed at this point).

[angelotaylor]

Do I understand correctly from your earlier post, that you run two computers (in addition to the D8B)? One with the Pro Tools TDM/Mix system for use as a Tape Machine, and another for use with Cubase and plug-ins, etc?

Yes.

If Foobar2000 is playing back from the Pro Tools computer, then it makes sense that it's all working as expected, when playing Foobar out the digital (S/PDIF) output, and sending that to the S/PDIF input on the D8B.
That's because the D8B is Master, the Pro Tools computer is slave, and thus a digital signal sent back from the Pro Tools computer to the D8B is already in sync and will work correctly.

In the second PC, I have a ECHO/LAYLA 2496 as audio interface. It setup as ADAT. In windows audio setup, I select 1-2 digital outs, but it is really ADAT format. In Foobar 2000, I select ECHO 1-2 digital out. I have only 2 pc: first - with Pro Tools Mix TDM 6.4.1 installed and second PC - with Cubase, and Foobar 2000. I have little bit of digitally clicks in sound, but not very often.

However, if Foobar2000 is running on the OTHER PC that is running Cubase, and you are outputting from the digital S/PDIF output on the audio interface on that one, to the S/PDIF input on the D8B, then you're feeding an "unsynced" digital audio signal back into the D8B.

No. I have only two PC. Second PC, with ECO/LAYLA, Cubase, and Foobar 2000 - synced from D8B DIO8 clock BNC out. This clock - is not very precisely. Direct link from D8B to Pro Tools, without synced second PC (with Foobar 2000) from D8B - not working! But, I think, that situation is very nice. I have get propose from mr Bruce Graham about Apogee WC Card, I will pay him on the next week, or after august, 14. I need sync with all component`s in my studio setup - it is impossible without Apogee WC card, as I see now...

Now, I have interest, how to get working phones, and how to use digital SPDIF IN on the D8B with ADAT`s simultaneously.

Thank You for answers!

[Y-my-R]

Hi Angelo,

OK... I never said you have 3 PCs (except if you'd count the D8B rack-unit as a 3rd PC). Anyway... good to know what options you have on the 2nd PC.

Let's start with the digital sync between D8B, PC1 and PC2, first. Here's what I'd do:

1. D8B S/PDIF out to 888 S/PDIF in. Pro Tools set to sync to the digital signal coming in from the S/PDIF on the 888. You already confirmed that this is working.

2. BNC Word Clock OUT from the USD (Universal Slave Driver - use the "regular" Word Clock out, not the Superclock out), to BNC Word Clock In on the Layla rack unit. Then set the Layla to sync to the signal coming in from the BNC Word Clock connector.
If you have problems with this, but you're using a proper 75-Ohm BNC Word Clock cable, then you might need to add a Terminator on the Layla side, and possibly on the USD side. Some devices are internally terminated on their Word Clock connectors and some are not (and some have a hardware or software switch). If they Layla and/or USD are NOT internally terminated and can't be switched, then you need to add an external BNC Terminator, by using a "T" Connector piece. In any case, both ends need to be properly terminated for Word Clock sync to work reliably.

As mentioned in a previous post, I'm not actually sure if the BNC connector on the DIO.8 card in the D8B actually sends a Word Clock signal. When I said that earlier, it was just to try it out, since you don't have a Apogee Word Clock card (yet). But since the 888/Pro-Tools computer is already synced to the D8B, you can then go on and sync the Cubase/Layla computer to the Pro Tools computer to have them all in sync in a "daisy-chain". For this, the D8B has to be Master (it's the only option with the stock clock card anyway), and both the Pro Tools computer and the Cubase Computer need to be set to "Slave" to the digital input that is coming in (and in the case of the Pro Tools computer, coming in, then passing back out via the Word Clock connector and going to the Layla).

Once all 3 "devices" (D8B/ProTools/Cubase) are in sync, you should be able to freely transfer digital signals between all of them without getting digital pops and clicks. Of course they all have to be set to the same Sample Rate and Bit Depth, though (unless you're working with Video, that should be 44.1 kHz. If you work with video, then it's usually 48 kHz. I think you said you're working for TV productions... so, then you would usually choose 48 kHz).

So, technically it's not impossible to sync all 3 together without an Apogee Word Clock card. What I described further above should work just fine that way... but you always have to have all 3 "devices" on (D8B/Pro Tools PC/Cubase PC), while using any of them.

As for the other question about using the S/PDIF input and the ADAT input on the D8B at the same time... there is no limitation to this, and they're all active simultaneously. However, you may need to change some routing settings on the D8B, to make the S/PDIF (or ADAT) signal appear on a channel on the D8B.

For ADAT, it depends on the card slot where your DIO.8 (or OPT8) card is installed. If it's in one of the "Tape" slots, then you should already see a signal coming in, once you push the "Tape In/25-48" button on the D8B, to switch to the "Tape Return" layer on the mixing desk.

(If it's in the Alt I/O Slot, then you need to push the "Effects/49-72" button and should see your ADAT signal come in on the last 8 channel faders on the right).

For S/PDIF, you have to change the default input for a channel on the D8B, to receive it's signal from the S/PDIF input, instead of the default analog input, that is active by default for each channel (there's some other options where/how you can route S/PDIF, but I'm guessing you want that signal on an input channel?).
Do you have a Monitor connected to the D8B? If so, click on where it says "PRE" on any "odd" channel (1, 3, 5, 7, etc.) (close to the top of the screen), then "Channel Patch >" and select "SPDF-L". Then do the same thing for the "even" channel to the right of it (2, 4, 6, 8, etc.), then "Channel Patch >" and select "SPDF-R". If you're sending a stereo signal over S/PDIF, you will also want to pan those two channels hard left/right.
You should be seeing a signal coming in on those channels now (as long as a signal/music is being sent via S/PDIF to the D8B).

As for the Headphone routing, what button is currently lit for Headphone 1 and/or 2? I'd press the "Control Room" button first, and make sure that you have a signal showing on some of the channels. Make sure the faders for those channels are up, and the Master Fader is, too. With all this set like this, you should hear something on the headphone out.

The Headphone sections have a few more buttons, of course, that allow you to quickly switch between different signal sources for Cue-mixes, etc. That's what you'll likely mostly want to use the headphone outputs for, when tracking musicians/talents... but to just test if the headphone outs give a sound, what I described above should at least let you hear something.

But once the stuff I'm describing above works, you should be ready to spend some time with the D8B, to figure out how the routing and the D8B workflows work, for every day use. Hopefully what I described here will give you a head start.

Again, best of luck!

[angelotaylor]

Hi Angelo,

OK... I never said you have 3 PCs (except if you'd count the D8B rack-unit as a 3rd PC). Anyway... good to know what options you have on the 2nd PC.

Let's start with the digital sync between D8B, PC1 and PC2, first. Here's what I'd do:

1. D8B S/PDIF out to 888 S/PDIF in. Pro Tools set to sync to the digital signal coming in from the S/PDIF on the 888. You already confirmed that this is working.

2. BNC Word Clock OUT from the USD (Universal Slave Driver - use the "regular" Word Clock out, not the Superclock out), to BNC Word Clock In on the Layla rack unit. Then set the Layla to sync to the signal coming in from the BNC Word Clock connector.
If you have problems with this, but you're using a proper 75-Ohm BNC Word Clock cable, then you might need to add a Terminator on the Layla side, and possibly on the USD side. Some devices are internally terminated on their Word Clock connectors and some are not (and some have a hardware or software switch). If they Layla and/or USD are NOT internally terminated and can't be switched, then you need to add an external BNC Terminator, by using a "T" Connector piece. In any case, both ends need to be properly terminated for Word Clock sync to work reliably.

As mentioned in a previous post, I'm not actually sure if the BNC connector on the DIO.8 card in the D8B actually sends a Word Clock signal. When I said that earlier, it was just to try it out, since you don't have a Apogee Word Clock card (yet). But since the 888/Pro-Tools computer is already synced to the D8B, you can then go on and sync the Cubase/Layla computer to the Pro Tools computer to have them all in sync in a "daisy-chain". For this, the D8B has to be Master (it's the only option with the stock clock card anyway), and both the Pro Tools computer and the Cubase Computer need to be set to "Slave" to the digital input that is coming in (and in the case of the Pro Tools computer, coming in, then passing back out via the Word Clock connector and going to the Layla).

Once all 3 "devices" (D8B/ProTools/Cubase) are in sync, you should be able to freely transfer digital signals between all of them without getting digital pops and clicks. Of course they all have to be set to the same Sample Rate and Bit Depth, though (unless you're working with Video, that should be 44.1 kHz. If you work with video, then it's usually 48 kHz. I think you said you're working for TV productions... so, then you would usually choose 48 kHz).

So, technically it's not impossible to sync all 3 together without an Apogee Word Clock card. What I described further above should work just fine that way... but you always have to have all 3 "devices" on (D8B/Pro Tools PC/Cubase PC), while using any of them.

As for the other question about using the S/PDIF input and the ADAT input on the D8B at the same time... there is no limitation to this, and they're all active simultaneously. However, you may need to change some routing settings on the D8B, to make the S/PDIF (or ADAT) signal appear on a channel on the D8B.

For ADAT, it depends on the card slot where your DIO.8 (or OPT8) card is installed. If it's in one of the "Tape" slots, then you should already see a signal coming in, once you push the "Tape In/25-48" button on the D8B, to switch to the "Tape Return" layer on the mixing desk.

(If it's in the Alt I/O Slot, then you need to push the "Effects/49-72" button and should see your ADAT signal come in on the last 8 channel faders on the right).

For S/PDIF, you have to change the default input for a channel on the D8B, to receive it's signal from the S/PDIF input, instead of the default analog input, that is active by default for each channel (there's some other options where/how you can route S/PDIF, but I'm guessing you want that signal on an input channel?).
Do you have a Monitor connected to the D8B? If so, click on where it says "PRE" on any "odd" channel (1, 3, 5, 7, etc.) (close to the top of the screen), then "Channel Patch >" and select "SPDF-L". Then do the same thing for the "even" channel to the right of it (2, 4, 6, 8, etc.), then "Channel Patch >" and select "SPDF-R". If you're sending a stereo signal over S/PDIF, you will also want to pan those two channels hard left/right.
You should be seeing a signal coming in on those channels now (as long as a signal/music is being sent via S/PDIF to the D8B).

As for the Headphone routing, what button is currently lit for Headphone 1 and/or 2? I'd press the "Control Room" button first, and make sure that you have a signal showing on some of the channels. Make sure the faders for those channels are up, and the Master Fader is, too. With all this set like this, you should hear something on the headphone out.

The Headphone sections have a few more buttons, of course, that allow you to quickly switch between different signal sources for Cue-mixes, etc. That's what you'll likely mostly want to use the headphone outputs for, when tracking musicians/talents... but to just test if the headphone outs give a sound, what I described above should at least let you hear something.

But once the stuff I'm describing above works, you should be ready to spend some time with the D8B, to figure out how the routing and the D8B workflows work, for every day use. Hopefully what I described here will give you a head start.

Again, best of luck!

Thank you very much for your patience and explanation. I need to go into the information you've given me. I will get the result and be sure to report it to you so that you understand that you have not wasted your time. Thank you again! See You!