D8b through interface into DAW?

[machmike]

Just curious if anyone is using the D8b back and forth directly with a DAW. before I start experimenting...
24 tracks just aren't enough right now using my HDR once I break apart drums and all my tracks.

[captainamerica]

yep....my setup is DAW Mac (DP/Logic/PT), MOTU gear and d8b. I also have a bunch of Mackie Controllers that allow me to take control up to 24 tracks via mackie midi faders and the rest virtual in my DAW.
Here's a pic of my setup (I use for both music and video editing)

[machmike]

II have a few questions:
My guess is you are taking the ADAT opticals through your interface into LOGIC and back to the D8B?
Using the Interface Word Clock?

Also, Have you tried to use the MIDI controls from the D8B as well?
Does this limit which interface you can use (MIDI)?

In the end, you are essentially using the D8b as a level mixer for your LOGIC groups?

Thanks,
Sorry for all the questions

[captainamerica]

correct Mike... ADAT opt to MOTU 2408 (24 ch) back to d8b

I do not use any MIDI features on d8b but I know it works and folks here on the forum can probably speak more to
that

Level Mixer with some plugins...but yes, since I do video editing as well, I like the workflow of my DAW/NLE "intimately" linked on my computer

[machmike]

Thanks for chatting with me. I am one of the very first D8B owners in the USA I have had it forever and used it daily until about 2010. I love the board, however now that my work is more track intensive and I have been off the road for a bit, I need more. Ideally, 48->64 tracks. Most of my gear is still analog, So I would really like to keep my outdated workflow (I don't like staring at screens instead of listening). I'm trying to keep using it instead of going to a hybrid setup because I see the investment as a poor one (I stopped using my studio commercially after I was signed).

I'd love to talk with you sometime to see if your workflow using a DAW would work for me.

[Y-my-R]

Hi machmike,

...how I use the D8B isn't really typical, but IMO there's a couple of things to consider, when coming from your specific angle:

- The concept of the D8B is that of an inline/split console, with separate channel paths (layers in this case) for your Mic/Line inputs and your Tape Returns. I personally LOVE the old-school workflow that comes from this principle (i.e. set up your input stage and send "to tape", but listen back from the playback head on the tape machine, right after the record head has written the signal to tape. This way, you know what has been printed to tape and how it sounds, already during recording). HOWEVER, this workflow has become somewhat irrelevant, when using a computer as your Tape Machine. The To Tape/From Tape workflow will introduce distracting latency (generated by the computers audio interface), so the downsides are larger than the benefit for working this way.
So, IMO, a split/inline workflow akin to an anlog tape workflow, makes no sense if the computer becomes the tape machine.

- As a result, the "Tape Return" channels open up to be used as additional input channels (depending on the cards that are installed in the D8B). For example, if you're using all analog Tape I/O cards, I'd probably just put them all on a patchbay. Then change the patching during recording and during editing/mixing work, and end up with 32 ADDITIONAL inputs on top of the regular 24 Line inputs on a single D8B console. That would give you 56 inputs at mixdown. Is that enough?

- If not, why not just add a second D8B? If you find an Error 43 one and fix it yourself, they can be had pretty cheap. They can be cascaded, but you'd typically use the Alt I/O card to link up 8 of the Busses, and also the AES/EBU digital I/O on the Master of both consoles. So, you lose 8 channels on each console (and the digital 2-Buss), but by the above calculation, would then have 96 inputs at Mixdown... if using all the Tape I/O cards along with the Mic/Line channels as if they were "regular" channels.
I actually have two cascaded D8Bs, and have never run a session that filled up both.

- If you have two D8Bs, you could also decide not to use a computer as your tape machine, but just use two HDR/MDR units instead. You'd "only" get 48 channels from Tape... but if you have a lot of outboard gear, then it's maybe more about having returns for all the fancy analog classics to be mixed, rather than having that many tape inputs? Used HDR/MDRs are also cheaper than buying a few audio interfaces and cascading them, to get the needed 6xADAT optical to work, for such a setup. Besides, the traditional To Tape/From Tape Split/Inline console workflow still makes sense when working with HDR/MDRs, since latency isn't an issue.

- Considering what a behemoth of a setup that is (I rarely turn everything on... I only turn on what I need in a given day, and work In the Box for the most part), and how much power it pulls, I personally would NOT recommend to go down that route. I think that you'll probably get results quicker, if you change your workflow to work ITB rather than creating a monster of a setup, with all the related signal flow headaches. And for an ITB workflow, a simple audio interface is enough, and you don't have an internal track limit. It kinda limits how much of your outboard gear you can use, of course.

- If you do want faders to control your ITB tracks, then your D8B can already control 8 of them without adding anything (i.e. by using HUI mode - faders 17-24 can then control tracks on your computer).
Personally, I've used Mackie Control units with 2 Extenders and a C4 unit for several years (they're collecting dust in my storage room... along with two more Mackie Control Universal units I had set up in the live room and by my electronic drum kit).
I replaced my Mackie controls with a "ProBox" for the D8B. After that, you can control 24 channels in your computer from the D8B. If all you want to do is to use the faders to adjust the levels, some panning, and control some "not too deep" DAW functions, then this works perfectly fine (deeper control is possible, but requires a lot of extra setup work). I actually put a ProBox on each of my two D8Bs, for direct control over 48 "in the box" channels. Feels a bit like I'm controlling a large format mixer that lives inside the computer...
The D8B doesn't have scribble strip displays, though. That's one major drawback compared to the Mackie Control units. But my priority was to get decent LED metering - and for that, the D8B is worlds better than the Mackie Control, where the LCD display just shows some sluggish/late bulls**t meters that aren't really usable.
Having said that - the LED meters on the D8B work great with the ProBox, with every DAW except for Logic! Logic has a bug, that makes the meters sluggish and useless on MIDI controllers that communicate via the Mackie Control or HUI protocols. The same bug can be observed on the Mackie Control units if looking really closely, but it's really hard to see, since those meters are completely useless to begin with - at least for serious audio work.

- IMO, a happy medium could be to work mostly in the box, but use the D8B with a ProBox to control the channels inside the computer, BUT simultaneously use the D8B as a Mixer where all your outboard gear is connected. Kind of like a glorified patchbay and submixer for your FX Sends/Returns, but with additional built-in effects. Plus, if you put not only the first 24 analog inputs on a patchbay, but also the Tape I/Os, you get more I/O during mixdown, by doing a bit of re-patching. With a setup like this, I personally would not route all of my computer audio tracks through the D8B, but just the ones that need to go to outboard gear and get returned back to the computer. And 24 (or 32 if incl. the ALT I/O card) just for your external FX Sends/Returns should be sufficient, I think.

Of course the "happy medium" I'm describing above only makes sense if you're ROCK SOLID when it comes to your understanding of signal flow and are not easily getting lost in it. But to me, the only other alternatives would be to either work completely in the box with a MIDI controller, or to add a large format analog console and set it all up the traditional way. Everything else gets out of hand quickly, I think.

Sorry for the ramble... oh, and here's a link to a thread where I introduced my Dual D8B setup, when I first bought a used Argosy desk for them (nothing was wired up at the time... now it's all wired, and looks rather different. But it should give an idea).

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2209&p=16422&hilit=argosy#p16422

Best of luck!

[Y-my-R]

Actually... here's a new pic of the dual argosy setup. I hung up a green blanket behind the desk, experimenting with doing live-streaming from home b/c of the lockdown, including some Greenscreen effects... and here the green blanket shows a dorky Star Trek Background, yay

This could handle the track count... albeit by using the HDR and Computer in combination. I only have 3 ADAT ports on my computer setup from one D8B. The other D8B has 3 ADAT ports going straight to the HDR... but I mostly use that to do quick mixes from rehearsal room recordings (that's where I keep my MDR, but with an analog mixer).

Everything is set up to run all in sync to the computer (and start/stop etc. from anywhere), though. And the D8B/HDR combo can also run without involving the computer (via some relatively complicated MIDI splitter/merger setup).

So, it CAN be done, but you have to be a little crazy to pull it off, hahaha