Dumb newb question

[tedoo]

well thats handy, the bot checker question just asked me if Apogee clock cards have BNC connectors. Had a look online, I think thats what the patchbay is made of. Still though, I don't know what they're used for.

[tedoo]

well thats handy, the bot checker question just asked me if Apogee clock cards have BNC connectors. Had a look online, I think thats what the patchbay is made of. Still though, I don't know what they're used for.

[Crash]

The DIO.8 digital card will get you TDIF connections. You can probably source some on Ebay or Reverb. The cool thing about the DIO.8 card is that it will allow you a choice of ADAT optical or TDIF.

[Y-my-R]

Great to hear that the D8B sprung to life with the Apogee Clock card in it! And yes... those TV-looking connectors are called "BNC" connectors.

In audio, they're common for digital clock signals. That BNC patch panel might be where you could connect devices to the house-clock, but maybe not... Do you know if there's a Master Clock generator somewhere, like an Apogee Big Ben or a Lucid unit or so... or to put it differently, look for another device with several such connectors in the back. If the cables disappear in the wall somewhere, they might just come back out at that patch panel. Best to measure what goes through to where.

BNC connectors are also used in video, though, as far as I know. I think for some meanwhile outdated format, though. I'm not a video guy, so I'm not sure. So, if the studio you're reviving did a lot of audio for video etc, then it might be for that.

As for the 3 cards with square holes - yeah, those are ADAT optical jacks (also called "lightpipe"), that can transfer 8 channels of audio on each (in one direction). Only the output should light up, not the input.

As Crash pointed out, there's cards that have both, ADAT Optical AND TDIF on them. Those are called DIO.8.
I forget what the other cards are called, but here's the types that exist:

- ADAT I/O
What you got. 8 digital audio channels in or out per optical connector.

- ADAT + TDIF I/O
Also 8 digital audio channel in or out, on either the ADAT connectors OR the TDIF connector (that one does both, inputs and outputs). You can select in the Mackie OS Settings which one is active.

- Analog I/O
8-channels of analog balanced I/O on two DB25 connectors per card. One DB25 connector for Ins, one for Outs. These "look" the same as TDIF connectors, but they're not compatible. One is Analog, TDIF is digital.

- AES/EBU
Those also have DB25 connectors... and they are digital. But it's a different format than TDIF. Basically TDIF is a "8 channels at once" format. AES/EBU is a digital "Stereo" format. On each DB25 connector, you get 4 "Stereo" AES/EBU signals, via a DB25 to 4x XLR snake. That's also a total of 8 channels per DB25 connector, but in this different (supposedly more professional) format.
Higher-end converters such as by Lynx etc., typically interface digitally via AES/EBU. The audio quality is not really different to other digital formats like S/PDIF (also a digital Stereo format), ADAT or TDIF, though (...some people might argue about error correction, status bits, etc., but for the every day user, it's not discernible).

You asked if you could do a TDIF to TRS snake. Sorry, the answer is no. That's because TDIF is digital (see above), while TRS connections are typically analog. Without A-to-D or D-to-A conversion, you can't just connect an adapter and have audible signals come out of a digital (multi-)port.

So, as Crash already said, if you want to stay in the digital domain between the Radar system and the D8B, it would be best to somehow obtain the "DIO.8" Tape I/O cards for your D8B. They have both, ADAT and TDIF connectors, and you'd configure them to have the TDIF connectors active.

Honestly, though... if you don't have a solid understanding of digital audio and it's clocking requirements yet, the configuration of all the devices that interconnect digitally, will likely still turn into quite a headscratcher for you. Every single device that connects to another device digitally in the studio, needs to run off of the same "Master clock".

It's easier if there's a "house clock generator", so I'd look if that's still around. With something like that, you just have the house clock generator set as "Digital Clock Master" and connect a cable directly to every other "digital" device, and set them all to sync to an external clock signal as "slave".

If you don't have a "house clock generator", you'll have to decide which device in your studio should act as the "Digital Clock Master", and then daisy chain everything else off of it. Plus, when done like this, something called "termination" comes into play, that makes everything even more complicated.
In short, if there's no "house clock generator" and you have to daisy chain devices together for digital clock, the whole thing is likely to become a headache quickly (the more digital devices are involved, the more complicated it becomes).

But we can cross that bridge when we get there. I'd just get the D8B and the Radar running separately at first, and then take it from there.

Long story short... any card you may have that has DB25 connectors on it, but NOT also ADAT optical connectors, isn't what you need to connect to the Radar digitally via TDIF. Those other DB25 connectors are either analog or AES/EBU - both not what you need. Connecting TDIF to those will not work without a format conversion - no matter what adapter you might be using (or making).

(Having said this - I think the Radar might also have Analog inputs/outputs on DB25 connectors. So, if you have a D8B card with two DB25 connectors on it, then it's an analog card, and you could connect the D8B and Radar together this way. But then you'd be converting (and degrading) the signal every time it flows from one device to the other, since it would repeatedly get converted from digital-to-analog-to-digital, etc. From some comments I read here in this forum, this tends to be how a lot of people seem to have their D8B and HDR recorders connected together... and there's usually no complaints about the audio quality. So, it IS doable. Just not recommendable IMO, if you want the best possible audio quality).

Most of the D8B extension cards I have, came with defective D8B consoles I bought for cheap (...and all 3 only needed basic fixing and are all fully working at this point). From my experience, that's cheaper than buying used cards off of e-bay. And you get a spare D8B for parts if something else breaks. If you have the space, I'd just look for a (cheap) spare D8B with extra cards. The 3 I have each cost around $100 off of Craigslist when I bought them, and each had some cards (and no Apogee clock card... those are always sold off first). So, maybe you could get a deal like that. Living in Los Angeles helps, of course, since there seem to be a lot of them around...

Anyway... it would probably be best if you get the Radar running first, before investing in TDIF cards to interface with it.

Good luck in the meantime, and keep us updated how things are progressing!

Sorry for the ramble... I tend to do that somehow...

[tedoo]

Hello Y-my-R,

I'm very sorry I haven't responded till now-I didn't check this thread till recently as I've been having problems with the D8B.

Since I last posted Ive had a lot of trouble with the Radar, ultimately had to find a technician for Radars in UK-theres one guy-anyway I had to send it off, he did eventually fix it, but sods law; I cant get the D8B to work now!

It has been an attritional saga. Basically im getting the error 43 message again. I did get it working a few months ago so I know it works. I have tried re-seating cards but I haven't re-set the BIOS settings-but it worked 3 months ago. Im almost tempted to just totally give up on it. I'll give it one more day, re-seat cards AGAIN, maybe clean them, re-do BIOS settings, if that doesn't work its baseball bat time.

Regarding the Radar, yes they do have Audio I/O and digital, but I cant try it because the D8B wont even turn on as I say.

Thanks very much for your help and advice on all those other points. Regarding all that sync stuff, yes there is a clock generator in the studio, but yeah i'm not going to bother with any of that stuff. Ultimately I want to sell the D8B and just get a half decent analog mixer, use a computer to record to but also use the Radar Audio I/O's for a different sound. The D8B has caused me so much frustration and cost me a lot of time-I'm developing a personal grudge against it now 2bhonest.

Anyway I don't think theres anything anyone on this forum can do to help without physically coming in to fix it, but just wanted to say thanks for your reply and let you know how its going.
Cheers,Danny

[Bruce Graham]

Hey Danny;
Besides re-seating the cards and checking the BIOS, you should clean with a good quality cleaner and re-seat the connectors inside the d8b and not just the CPU.
It is a horrible job but one that usually yields good results.
Best of luck. Post back.
Bruce

[Y-my-R]

Hi Danny,

The D8B isn't really the most reliable mixer, so I totally understand your frustration. Mine have been running pretty reliably over the last few years, though. But then again, I'm not using them on a daily basis and do almost everything in the box... and just turn the D8B on when I need the convenience of all the digital routing options the D8B gives. And I also have all my hardware synths hooked up to it... so when I work with those, I turn on the D8B. But that's not very often.
If I'd run a studio where undisrupted uptime is critical for profit, I'd probably use something else than the D8B, too. (I hope I don't offend anybody on here, by saying such a thing).

Anyway... IMO, the BIOS settings are the most probable cause for the Error 43 you're getting (at least if you already tried the simple stuff, like reseating the giant umbilical cord and the 25-pin cable between the rack unit and the mixer. Good that you also re-seated the cards, but from my experience, those don't usually cause an error 43... but it's possible).

Did you replace the internal battery when you first ressurected the D8B? If not, then it probably just lost it's BIOS settings. So, get a new battery for $2, install it in the rack unit, then re-do the BIOS settings, and most likely it will run again.
If not, we'll have to dig a little deeper.

Reseating all the cards and ribbon cables in the mixer and the rack unit, as Bruce suggested, is always a good idea, if a D8B has been sitting for some time. Eroding contacts on those, can cause all kinds of erratic behavior and strange problems. It's a big job, though... and if you want to sell it anyway, I'd only do what's absolutely necessary. So, I'd start with the battery and BIOS settings. Just post again if that didn't do the trick... then we can look at other symptoms and what to do about them.

Again, good luck with all of that... and too bad to hear that you want to get rid of it, once the D8B is running. But it's understandable, I think.

[captainamerica]

"....Besides re-seating the cards and checking the BIOS, you should clean with a good quality cleaner and re-seat the connectors inside the d8b and not just the CPU."