d8b Forum

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:44 pm**

Hello all,

Just wanted to apologize for not being around as promised, my personal life is still doggy and I'm putting priority on getting better. I know that some of you might be a little frustrated but I invested over 2 years of my personal time in this project and still supporting the software, the best I can. I know that 350$ is maybe a little expensive and you might think you're not getting the support you deserve, I know for a fact that unhappy customers are bad for business.

Now, I have not forgot about you guys, I'm just taking a breather. D8Bridge is still available and working pretty good for most of you. I have a few enhancements that I've done to the software but I won't announce them anymore, I'm tired of all the bashing that's taking place. I'm just a guy supporting and old console, started all of this for *fun* and now some people are starting to bad mouth me/the project.

I'd like to thank all of you who sent me support emails and such, it's really appreciated.

Posted: **Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:55 pm**

Marc Girard wrote:Hello all,

Just wanted to apologize for not being around as promised, my personal life is still doggy and I'm putting priority on getting better. I know that some of you might be a little frustrated but I invested over 2 years of my personal time in this project and still supporting the software, the best I can. I know that 350$ is maybe a little expensive and you might think you're not getting the support you deserve, I know for a fact that unhappy customers are bad for business.

Now, I have not forgot about you guys, I'm just taking a breather. D8Bridge is still available and working pretty good for most of you. I have a few enhancements that I've done to the software but I won't announce them anymore, I'm tired of all the bashing that's taking place. I'm just a guy supporting and old console, started all of this for *fun* and now some people are starting to bad mouth me/the project.

I'd like to thank all of you who sent me support emails and such, it's really appreciated.

Marc,

For many of us, this will suffice for now. I'm among those who will wait, impatiently, but I'll wait. The absence of any communications from you in more than 2 months having said you we're back on the job was more than I could understand or accept. I hope you don't count me in the number who are "bad mouthing" or "bashing" you since you know very well the level of contribution and support I've provided you for the furtherance of D8Bridge. It's just that it was well past time for you to check in and let us know what was going on. If you could drop us an occasional clue that would help immensely. I wish you continued progress in your personal affairs and hope you have all of that resolved to your satisfaction soon.

Posted: **Sat Jul 13, 2013 4:01 am**

Marc, dude....sh*t happens man, we're ALL human.....frustrations aside, we all want the same thing, however some of us are a bit happier just to hear from you than worrying about the product. The place isn't the same without you, regardless of the status of D8Bridge. As you may see in the other thread in here, I have voiced my concerns like many others, but I will also be the first to come to your defense, as there ARE those of us that have been here a good while, and know the bigger story.

Whatever your reasons for stepping away, the bigger concern (for ME at least) was simply to hear from you and know you were ok. Yes, I have my concerns just like others, but you are the heart of this little community, and without your presence, it simply withers and dies. Whether I purchase your product or not.....having been here for so long, and contributed in various small ways to further it's development, I am MORE satisfied to simply hear from you and know all may not be perfect, but it isnt the "end" either....Do what you must, but please, just check in from time to time and let us know YOU are ok man

Posted: **Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:44 pm**

Marc,

I have been watching this project for a long time but haven't commented. I just want to say I hope everything in your personal life works out. I am really excited about what you have done this far into the d8bridge development, and thank you for all of your hard work. Everyone has the right to voice their opinions and if they feel angry about the support or speed of development that is their prerogative. I just want to let you know that I am still thrilled with how far you have taken this, and I am still patiently waiting for the updates. I just hope you do not give up on this because we need you and most of us are happy with everything you have done. I would never expect you to choose working on d8bridge over working on your personal life. I just wanted to let you know that there is another person that still with you not against you.

thank you again for all your hard work

Miko

Posted: **Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:25 pm**

Firstly Marc may I say I hope you get yourself back on track, thats the most important thing.

Now I have followed this software since day one, but as a Mac user could not jump on board.

In my opinion this is a lesson for those out there that wish to make a piece of software commercially available. It is a large commitment as just making a sale is never the end of it. Especially when the initial release is incomplete and needs updates to make it function fully. And I think Marc probably didn't realise quite how much of an undertaking it could become.

I think the price of the product at $350 whilst not that high for a fully functioning product was high enough to take it beyond a casual purchase. I do understand Marc's position, unfortunately the price and professionalism of the website led many to think of this as a pro piece of software with the expectations of updates and news just as high. Many sample library developers suffer this as they are often small one or two men bands and cannot afford to keep doing free updates. However the ones that can are the ones that are prospering like Cinesamples and Spitfire.

Lets remember for not much more you can buy a second hand MCU and at least one extender. For those that can afford $350 and not be too worried, you probably could go the whole hog and buy the MCUs. Me personally, I could not wait forever and so did just this. Unfortunately it means my D8B is largely a cosmetic centrepiece.

I must finish by saying even these are not perfect, Mackie's implementation (especially for Logic) is still incomplete for instance hide channels in Arrange View does nothing to the MCU display. And it seems development stood still on the MCU pretty much the day they dismantled their Woodinville team.

Does seem nobody in the market is really interested in a 24 channel controller and it does seem only $15-20,000 will get you something close. I would love a System 5 or a Logic version of the D-Command but never going to happen.

Seems everyone loves touchscreen now so roll on Slate Digital's console (but not for me!).

Posted: **Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:09 pm**

NigelC wrote:Firstly Marc may I say I hope you get yourself back on track, thats the most important thing.

Now I have followed this software since day one, but as a Mac user could not jump on board.

In my opinion this is a lesson for those out there that wish to make a piece of software commercially available. It is a large commitment as just making a sale is never the end of it. Especially when the initial release is incomplete and needs updates to make it function fully. And I think Marc probably didn't realise quite how much of an undertaking it could become.

I think the price of the product at $350 whilst not that high for a fully functioning product was high enough to take it beyond a casual purchase. I do understand Marc's position, unfortunately the price and professionalism of the website led many to think of this as a pro piece of software with the expectations of updates and news just as high. Many sample library developers suffer this as they are often small one or two men bands and cannot afford to keep doing free updates. However the ones that can are the ones that are prospering like Cinesamples and Spitfire.

Lets remember for not much more you can buy a second hand MCU and at least one extender. For those that can afford $350 and not be too worried, you probably could go the whole hog and buy the MCUs. Me personally, I could not wait forever and so did just this. Unfortunately it means my D8B is largely a cosmetic centrepiece.

I must finish by saying even these are not perfect, Mackie's implementation (especially for Logic) is still incomplete for instance hide channels in Arrange View does nothing to the MCU display. And it seems development stood still on the MCU pretty much the day they dismantled their Woodinville team.

Does seem nobody in the market is really interested in a 24 channel controller and it does seem only $15-20,000 will get you something close. I would love a System 5 or a Logic version of the D-Command but never going to happen.

Seems everyone loves touchscreen now so roll on Slate Digital's console (but not for me!).

There are some really excellent points made in NigelC's post. And I'm with you on touchscreen, it's just not for me either; I want that tactile feedback (preferably from my d8b).

What I'm not seeing from the BluAudio team is the understanding that the decision to sell D8Bridge as a product transitions the activity out of the realm of "something fun to do" and into the realm of commerce, where customers have reasonable expectations that the product purchased will comform the the characterization of that product by the seller, and the seller has an obligation to deliver to the customer what was purchased. Seriously, if it really was just for fun then why not publish the source code under a GNU license and forget all this silly selling and purchasing? Well, because it wasn't just for fun after all. It may have started that way but now it is commerce, for profit. Because it is a commercial product it no longer matters to customers that it was started for fun.

I'm disappointed to hear Marc say in his post that he won't announce his enhancements anymore, not that we've seen that sort of thing in a long time anyway. I presume what that means is that we won't be getting any information on the status of the project. So that now takes us from a position of not getting any information for a long time yet hoping for some when Marc felt he was up to it, to a position of not getting any information for a long time and we shouldn't really expect any.

As a supportive, paying customer, that feels pretty alienating after all this time and investment. I feel I now have no mechanism to communicate with the seller and I have no hope of any communications regarding product status until such time as Marc feels he's willing to communicate. So my options seem to have now come down to just waiting quietly for something to happen... ...or not.

Posted: **Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:30 pm**

Now if only Mackie would rewrite the MCU protocol to run more than 8 channels off one port... Written when they first launched an 8 channel only HUI.

My dream rig is to use my MCUs for MIDI/AUs and the D8B for Audio tracks, all via my DAW. However the closest I can get is using the HUI layer on the D8B. Why bother? because when mixing a complex arrangement it is much easier to grab faders than bank through layers.

However still does not address issue that D8B does not have scribble strips above each channel!

My ultimate dream rig would be a System 5 as it has multiple assignable controllers per channel each with its own scribble strip. It still irks me that to control eq and dynamics we have to make do with master controls.

Ho hum still better than the 4 track portastudio I started off with many years ago with no built-in mixer!

PS Marc I really am not criticising you if your circumstances dictate things. However when people shell out $350 they expect a path of development free or paid. However there are many other "companies" guilty of broken dreams. Remember how NI's Kore was sold as the sound design system of the future? Or Maschine (which still has no MIDI import over 3 years later)?

Posted: **Mon Jul 22, 2013 4:16 am**

Marc,

Expectations are problematic. When you were a clever reverse-engineer who managed to breathe new life and functionality into an unappreciated gem from the past (d8b), you're applauded for the effort. Once you step in the realm of commercial enterprise, in which you hope to at least recoup a little of the time, energy and talent you lavished on the project, you have to deal with a completely new set of standards. People can cheer and applaud from the sidelines, but once they have some "skin in the game" they naturally become a bit more insistent on progress and support along some sort of regular schedule.

I believe in caveat emptor. Anybody buying this product knows it is a "kitchen sink" invention by a gifted hobbyist. The expectations for regular updates, timelines, and breakthroughs are just foolish, IMHO. Your clients are buying from a brilliant tinkerer, not from a company with millions in R&D and a staff of engineers. If they have any delusions to the contrary, that's their own fault. But that's just me.

FWIW I really hope you figure out a way to retrofit d8bs as DAW/platform independent control surfaces--especially for us Mac users, with advanced functioning for the new Logic X that came out last week. Don't get discouraged or give up, even when LIFE gets in the way on occasion. Thank you for your efforts thus far. I'm excited to see what you'll be able to do next.

Posted: **Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:09 pm**

disfrontman wrote:Marc,

Expectations are problematic. When you were a clever reverse-engineer who managed to breathe new life and functionality into an unappreciated gem from the past (d8b), you're applauded for the effort. Once you step in the realm of commercial enterprise, in which you hope to at least recoup a little of the time, energy and talent you lavished on the project, you have to deal with a completely new set of standards. People can cheer and applaud from the sidelines, but once they have some "skin in the game" they naturally become a bit more insistent on progress and support along some sort of regular schedule.

I believe in caveat emptor. Anybody buying this product knows it is a "kitchen sink" invention by a gifted hobbyist. The expectations for regular updates, timelines, and breakthroughs are just foolish, IMHO. Your clients are buying from a brilliant tinkerer, not from a company with millions in R&D and a staff of engineers. If they have any delusions to the contrary, that's their own fault. But that's just me.

FWIW I really hope you figure out a way to retrofit d8bs as DAW/platform independent control surfaces--especially for us Mac users, with advanced functioning for the new Logic X that came out last week. Don't get discouraged or give up, even when LIFE gets in the way on occasion. Thank you for your efforts thus far. I'm excited to see what you'll be able to do next.

Posted: **Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:48 pm**

disfrontman wrote:Marc,

I believe in caveat emptor. Anybody buying this product knows it is a "kitchen sink" invention by a gifted hobbyist. The expectations for regular updates, timelines, and breakthroughs are just foolish, IMHO. Your clients are buying from a brilliant tinkerer, not from a company with millions in R&D and a staff of engineers. If they have any delusions to the contrary, that's their own fault. But that's just me.

@disfrontman -

Yes, that's just you.

If a product is advertised as a "kitchen sink", whatever that is, and is portrayed as something less than it is intended to be, as in "experimental", "beta", "a hobbyist's unfinished work", "tinkerer's tinkering", "it's meant to do thus but I can't guarantee its functionality with all the DAWs listed as compatible", or some other portrayal of an un-productized development effort, then sure, don't expect much in the way of getting what you've paid for. Caveat emptor indeed. But when you've seen advertised for sale a capabilty with no warnings, provisions, or exceptions, even a shrewd buyer has no way of knowing that the product does not live up to its advertized functionality.

You clearly have no "skin in the game" because if you did, and you did not get what you paid for, your perspective would likely be much different. For me, my skin includes not only the $350 I paid up front for the software but hours of interface research and documentation, additional software purchased for that activity (Bome MIDI Translator) costing another $80, Perl software development to aid in the parsing of MIDI messages exchanged between D8Bridge and the DAW, and the time and energy it has taken to accurately document in great detail issues in v1.1 which I've provided to Marc to assist him in the continued development he indicated he would be doing. When you have that kind of "skin in the game" then I think it will be fair for you to criticize the expectations of others.

As far as millions in R&D and a staff of engineers, I don't think anyone has those expectations. We all know that BluAudio is a 1 - 2 man shop and nobody expects them to perform like a heavily resouced outfit. I don't even think "regular updates" are expected, just what Marc has said he intended to do. And I think most everybody here understands that Marc has been challenged by some life events and I think we all understand the implications. The fact is, it doesn't take a large staff and millions in R&D to develop and maintain a product like D8Bridge. It is basically a serial-to-MIDI translator and one or two smart guys can manage nicely to develop and maintain it, given no substantial interference from life events. When Marc is back on his feet I hope he resumes his stewardship of this wonderful concept.

To be clear, I am a big fan of D8Bridge 1.1. I don't feel deluded at all. I feel like I haven't gotten completely what I paid for, what was advertised, and because of that I feel like I can't recommend it to colleagues, but I really want to. I think these guys have done a pretty good job and with just a few exceptions I am satsfied with the performance of 1.1. But there are a few things that need fixing and I'm staying tuned in to try to support and encourage that. I want Marc to get through his life circumstances successfully and get back on his feet. I also want to feel like I know what's going on, since I have "some skin in the game", so if I hear that development is resuming I want to trust that report and not learn 2 months later that nothing has happened. An occasional status from BluAudio would help to manage my expectations, even if it's to report that Marc's still focused on sorting out some personal matters. I really hope Marc continues to resolve his issues, and to let us know how he's doing and what's going on with D8Bridge 1.2. In my mind, these are not unreasonable things to hope for.

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