d8b Forum

For anybody who is looking to add a USB-port to their D8B or HDR, this part works (at least on the new board, but I think I also had this installed on the old board at some point... but I'm no longer certain... too long ago):

https://www.ebay.com/itm/334461327689

And for $10 new, you really can't complain, IMO.

I already had a single Asus USB 1.1 board exactly like that (that I don't recall what other computer that came with, originally) in the D8B rack unit I turned into a Win98 computer, and it works great for that.

When I ran across that eBay offering, I bought another one and swapped it with the one in my Win98 D8B computer to make sure it works before ordering more.. and the new board works just like my old board. So, this is confirmed to work

I think that theoretically "any" USB 1 (or 1.1) expansion should work... but sometimes it's not clear from the product listing, and I bought two similar USB expansion boards before, that did NOT work with the D8B (probably wired for USB2, or some other pinout for the connector on the motherboard). I didn't want to "customize" the wiring of these other USB extenders I had ordered and was just waiting for a drop-in "as-is" solution to come along, and the link above seems to be it.

I just placed an order for another 2 of these ASUS USB/MIR boards, so I can keep one in each of my spares and/or use these D8B computers for additional vintage PC projects (i.e. my Win98 D8B computer exists to house my Ensoniq Soundscape Elite card (the soundcard I originally started writing/recording music with)... and is convenient for loading/converting old files of mine from back in the day). I can always remove that stuff again, if I'd need the spare for a D8B-mixer setup.

Besides, I have another ISA soundcard I can't use in the same converted D8B computer at the same time because of IRQ limitations (Terratec EWS64S - needs the same IRQs as the currently installed Ensoniq Soundscape Elite card), so I might just build another Win98 D8B computer for that from one of my spares (...although that card doesn't really have anything on it, that can't easily be recreated with software... the Soundscape card has a ASR/TS type FX chip on it (ESP/OTTO).

If anyone would like to explore the idea to run Win98SE on a D8B computer and use USB... you have to install an additional driver to make it recognize USB thumb drives/memory sticks. (NUSB 3.6).

When the USB port is in use with the D8B running the Mackie OS, what it can do with that port is rather limited. I don't remember off hand, but it either only supports a USB keyboard OR a USB mouse (I forgot, since I had used the only USB-expansion board that works with the D8B hardware, with that Win98 box, instead... but there is no USB driver for either one of those built into the Mackie OS... so, only one of them will work... forgot which. And I'd think that USB memory sticks likely also wouldn't be recognized when running the Mackie OS on the rack hardware... so, added functionality is pretty limited... but still - I looked for these expansion boards before a few years ago and couldn't find any. So, load up on new such boards while they're available, if you were thinking about expanding your D8B with USB ports

If you have a spare D8B computer and feel like turning it into a vintage Windows system, either to support old hardware (e.g. ISA cards) or as a vintage gaming system to play DOS-games, then you might want to look at this page... much of that stuff is useful, when bringing an old Win98 computer back in service, nowadays:

http://dk.toastednet.org/vogons/win98/

...or generally, the "Vogons" forum is good for that:

https://www.vogons.org/

(besides, Vogon poetry is the BEST!)

...oh, and just a thought: If your D8B no longer works as a mixer and your only using it with a ProBox, you could as well install Windows on the computer side of things and run that while using the D8B console with the ProBox. The rack computer literally does nothing when used with the ProBox, other than provide power. Might as well have it run Windows (or Linux) and be available for conversions or little test projects etc.
...and for that, the USB expansion board I'm linking to above, is really useful, IMO

Y-my-R,

I wish that I had either your knowledge or came from the same planet as you, so that I could understand what you are saying !!!!!

Not that I expect to be doing what you have suggested, but do you know/think if it would work on a Win XP computer --- blew up my Win8 computer about 2yrs ago and no local computer repair place wants to touch it?

David

I just used these kinds of computers when they were new and haven' forgotten it all just yet, haha (but I clearly forgot some of it... as is evident of the multiple "I don't remembers" in my first post above.
I got rid of all that old stuff back when I got new computers again and again, over the years. And at some point, I noticed that I have no computer hardware left, that could utilize my old soundcards, etc., and started keeping an eye out for an old computer with ISA slots for this purpose (that was still before I had a D8B).

Eventually, I ended up with two Error 43 D8Bs and a ProBox (I was really just looking for a Mackie HUI because I wanted LED meters for the channels... figured the D8B/ProBox is better/bigger than the HUI), and realized that I could just use the D8B computer for the "ISA slot computer" purpose, and that I'm finally done looking for a vintage computer mainboard with ISA slots that can fit a full-length ISA card like that Ensoniq soundcard.

So, the D8B and the "spares" I keep for it, really serve multiple purposes for me. Mixer, Controller, old-Soundcard-host, and to some degree, vintage gaming (although much of that is easier in virtual machines, IMO... but every now and then, I feel nostalgic and play a round of Doom or Herectic on that Win98 D8B computer).

But about your question: If your PC came with XP when it was new, then it probably already has USB 2.0 ports and the part I shared will NOT work for that.

Also, most newer boards had the USB ports "permanently attached" to the motherboard, and many had no extra connections for more USB expansion boards. Some motherboards DO have some extra pins where you could connect extra expansion boards similar to what I shared here (but most likely for USB 2.0... or even USB 3.0 or higher, if the hardware is from towards the end of Windows XP's life).

To be sure what fits, you'd need to research that with your computer model (if it's a brand name model, like a Dell or something), or MUCH better, by looking for the name of the motherboard inside it, looking at the specifications for it, and determining if it has "headers" (pins on the board) to connect such an expansion board, and what type.

Newer USB2, USB3 and USB3.1 expansion boards like that are readily available and a dime a dozen... and if you order a random one, it has a much higher probability of fitting that computer, than when trying to find oooooooold stuff like the USB 1.1 expansion for the D8B.

So, you shouldn't have any problem at all, finding a USB expansion board for your Windows 8 computer, as long as it has a header for that on the motherboard.

However, these expansion boards don't have their own USB controller chip on them, but rely on the USB controller chip on the mainboard.
So, if you mean that you physically/electrically blew up the USB controller on your Windows 8 computer, an extension board like that will not fix the USB controller, and USB still won't work.

...if you meant if you can run WinXP on the D8B computer... probably not - at least not comfortably. It's too old. There's really no point trying to use that computer for any sort of modern/serious tasks... it only makes sense for "vintage" special projects, like running old hardware or games, etc. Or just to have access to a floppy drive via DOS (but you could already do that with a "regular" D8B, by just booting it from a DOS or Linux boot floppy...

For any "modern" work, that computer is too old, by far.

I don't want to go as far off topic as asking what the problem with the computer is and what happened... troubleshooting "random" windows computer hardware would likely go WAY outside the scope of the already long e-mails I'm typing here... but part of the reason I'm not a fan of Windows PCs, is that they sooner or later slow down or eventually give up, from all the junk that accumulates and is allowed to get in the way of the operating system's performance.
So... are you sure you have a hardware problem with that Windows PC, and it isn't something that a simple format/reinstall can't fix? IMO, Windows computers need that every now and then, if you dare to go online with them, hahaha

Y-my-R,

To answer your last part re the Win 8 computer.

It is a tower type computer and has small vent holes in the side (as well as a fan in the rear). One day while I had it on and there was an electrical light flash from both of the side vents and the unit shut down.

On re-booting it started to boot when it started to make a bleeping sound and simply stopped loading (no screen message). I shut down and re-booted about three times (from memory) but each time at about the same loading position (or booting time) it started to beep.

I took the cover off to see if I could find/see the problem but everything looked OK (ie nothing burnt, etc), so I re booted to see if I could see anything as it booted but nothing apart from the bleeping through the internal speaker.

I then gave up and a few days later called some of the local computer repair places, but none were interested in even looking at it --- "way to old".

It has since been placed betwen mine and my wife's computers and is being used as a stand for our internet modem and the master station for our Uniden DEC phone system.

David

That sure sounds like a dead computer with "do not resuscitate" written all over it.

Since this isn't D8B related, I shouldn't really give a long response to this here... but, if there were visible flashes on both sides, then that must have been a pretty HUGE electrical spark in there.
I'd check if any wire that has power on it, touched ground somwhere on the inside and make sure it can't do that, anymore.
It could also have been a power surge coming in from mains. So I'd check for blown components on the path from where the power connects to the mainboard.
Also, the beeping is likely not random, but has a pattern similar to morse code. Write that down and look up what it means for your computer model/mainboard. The beep code can sometimes pinpoint what got fried... like, bad memory has a different beep code than "no CPU" etc.

Once you know what the beep code means and have addressed that (e.g. replace memory if it's a bad memory beep code), I'd disconnect everything from the board, except for the necessary stuff (i.e. video card, keyboard - but nothing else - no harddrive, no other peripherals. Then try powering it on again (while ready to quickly unplug the whole thing in case it catches fire) and see if anything appears on the screen or if it still just beeps.
...and then take little steps from there... if this worked, add one peripheral at a time and try again.

But again, with a big electrical flash like that, something probably got "deep-fried" and that computer is likely just VERY dead. I'd take the harddrive out and try to copy off of it what I can and part out the computer for whatever may still be useful (hoping that the parts didn't fry... but they might have taken some damage, too).

Hi Guys,
I've been reading this thread with keen interest because of a specific goal that I have. Is it possible that I could install Windows 98 on an HDR (same motherboard). If so, could I then use a patch that I have acquired to flash the bios to allow the full use of drives over 120Gb (we can currently use these drives with the Mackie bios upgrade, but cannot use more than 120 GB of the space available on the drive)? This patch was written specifically for Windows 98. Once done could I then reinstall the mackie OS with the bios change intact?


Have a blessed day,
Mike

Y-my-R,

Hopefully this attempt goes through without the error message !!!!!

Thanks for that info and apologising for the delay in replying.

Seriously, although it was handy for the d8b all those years ago, I am not sure that after all of this time I am all that bothered about getting it to work again, BUT one day when I actually have nothing better to do (and when I should really be pulling out the donated d8b !!!!!) I will turn it on and take note of the beeps and even if just out of interest I will see what I can find in relation to the beeps.

The donated desk will probably not be until about mid Jan next year as we will soon be having a house full of family (you know the type that come over --- or escaping from DOK's region of the USA !!! ) meaning that the spare bedroom I used previously will be taken.

Again, thanks for the info.

David

I only just now noticed the responses to this, sorry!

Mike - if there’s a BIOS flash utility app for Win98, that allows to upgrade the BIOS without replacing the chip… then at least theoretically, yes, it should be possible to temporarily run Win98 on D8B (or HDR) hardware for this purpose. Of course I’d disconnect the Mackie OS drive during the whole process, to avoid the OS installation on it being damaged in any way, and instead use a separate “small” hard drive or CF card (if you have a card reader in your D8B) to install Win98 to for this purpose.

However, AFAIK, “large HD” BIOS upgrade chips are still available for the HDR, no? Whenever the topic comes up on here, someone usually responds, saying that they still have a few and to reach out to them. I don’t remember clearly how much I paid for mine… but I think it was around $50.

I flashed the BIOS on a few Windows PCs over the years… but it’s always a bit of a scary process. If anything goes wrong during the process (e.g. power outage) or you make a mistake (e.g. loading the wrong BIOS image), your computer (or HDR/D8B) may be “bricked” forever. And the older the hardware, the more of a chance I’d see for things to go wrong.
So, personally, I’d probably just buy an already flashed BIOS replacement chip for large hard drive support.

…or I’d buy one, and since I have nothing to lose at that point, would THEN try to flash the BIOS myself. Then I already have the fix if I brick my BIOS chip, or have a spare if it DOES work out

Also, if you don’t have the needed materials lying around, it could take a while to prepare everything. What you need (if you don’t personally own a copy of Win98SE and your serial code for it, you can usually find a copy on archive.org - probably not really legal, though. Not sure if these sorts of copyrights expire and after how long):

- Win98SE installation disk or image (non SE aka “Second Edition” probably also works… but USB requires SE)
- Matching Windows 98 SE serial number for activation
- Win98 bootup/installation floppy (if you’re going the CD-ROM route, you’ll need one that loads CD-ROM drivers on start).
- IDE CD-ROM drive for installation (unless you’re using a disk image).
- …and your D8B/HDR better have a different video card than the Cirrus Logic one… I couldn’t get Win98 to work with that one, and ended up using an ATI card from another D8B.

Instead of using an actual CD-ROM drive, if you have a disk image of it, you could also just copy the “i386” folder to another (IDE) hard drive or other medium you can make available during installation. Then, when booting from the floppy disk, and ending up in DOS command line mode, you browse to the i386 folder (e.g. “D:" if that’s the drive letter where the i386 folder is, then cd “i386” to enter that folder, and then start the installation by typing the name of the installer. I think it was “Setup.exe” for Win98, but I don’t remember for sure (for example, it’s winnt.exe” when installing Windows XP this way… but I think during Win98 times, it was just “setup.exe”).

So, for the general procedure:

- Open the D8B/HDR rack case

- Disconnect the drive with Mackie OS on it, to protect it

- Make sure you have an ATI video card in there… the Cirrus Logic likely won’t work for windows 98

- Connect two IDE drives to the two IDE controllers on the mainboard - one to install Win98SE to. The other as the installation source… so, either a CD-ROM drive, of another hard drive that has the i386 folder from the Windows 98 CD on it.

- Insert the Win98 boot floppy and start the computer.

- Hit “Delete” repeatedly until the BIOS opens. Change the boot order, so drive “A” is the first drive the computer is looking for. Also, if the hard drive detection is set to anything other than “Auto” you need to either detect and save the hard drive settings for what you have connected now, for the Win98 installation, or just use the “Auto” setting for this purpose. Save the BIOS changes, then restart the computer (don’t change anything else, or you might have trouble when trying to use this as a HDR or D8B again, later).

- With the Win98 startup floppy in the drive, the computer should boot to the DOS command prompt, and then show “A:” (it might ask if you want to install CD-ROM drivers before that point… well, if you ARE using a CD-ROM drive for the installation, confirm).

- With the DOS prompt showing “A:” type the drive letter of the CD-ROM drive, or the drive that contains the i386 folder, followed by a colon. So, for example, type “D:” (without the quotes).

- The line should now start with “D:” (or the drive letter you use). Now type CD i386 from here.

- The line should now start with “D:/i386/“ - type “Setup.exe” (and if nothing happens, type “dir” (this lists the content of the directory), and look for other .exe files that are named like something that might start the installation).

Once you started the installation app, the familiar graphical installation guidance screens of Windows 98 should show up, and from this point, the installation is the same as with any other old computer like that.

Once Win98 is installed, you’d need to get that BIOS flash utility and the ROM file for the BIOS on that computer to run it… might be small enough for a floppy drive… if not, you might already want to have that copied to the same drive where you’ll have the “i386” folder for installation purposes.

…and once you’re done with all of this, I’d personally probably copy the i386 folder to the root of the hard drive where Win98 is installed (since you will need that, whenever Windows prompts you to insert the Win98 CD… so, any time you install hardware or a driver, etc.. At that point you’ll instead just point to that folder, and it should find the files it needs), then remove the “secondary drive” or CD-ROM drive you used for installation, but leave the Win98 drive inside the D8B/HDR computer.

Then, you can activate the Win98 drive from the BIOS, and boot to Windows whenever you need it, or DISABLE it in the BIOS and only keep your D8B/HDR drive active there, to run the hardware as intended as a Mixer (D8B) or Recorder (HDR).

The extra hard drive will still make noise all the time, though if left in the computer like that. Even if not active. So, you might want to prefer disconnecting the Windows drive internally to avoid that… but then you’d have to open the case, every time you want to start windows. So, not ideal.

Or… if you have an HDR/D8B that runs its OS from a CF card that is accessible externally, it’s even easier. You just boot the D8B/HDR from the Windows98 CF when you need it, and otherwise boot it from the Mackie OS CF.

Let me know if you get stuck at any particular step and I can try to help. But this process IS just as finicky as installing old Windows versions on an old Windows PC always used to be… with every attempt taking hours, etc. So, be prepared for a bit of a time-intensive project, if you decide to do this

Having said all of this... if I remember right, BIOS flash utilities often required to restart the computer to DOS to run that. And even apps "for Windows" often re-started the computer in DOS mode for this sort of thing...

So, before you do all of this, just to flash the BIOS, it might be worthwhile to try to find out if this BIOS flash tool could possibly also run from DOS.
If so, you'd just need a DOS boot floppy disk and run the utility from the DOS command prompt... skipping over all that installation hassle, and possibly doing this without even opening the case of the HDR/D8B rack unit.

Do you have a link to the utility? I can take a look.