mark appears

[pino68]

well, I try

[pino68]

Y-my-R hello.
I did as you said. Now it's all OK. Perfect Sample Rate in both machines - D8B and HDR -
However, there is no way to select the Master out in the "Control Room".
I'll explain:
I connected the Genelec speaker cables to the outputs (behind the mixer) - Master Out
Then I connected the cables going to the amplifier to control the Yamaha speakers (monitors) at the "near field" exit.
When listening, I can't control either, when I press in the Control Room, the "Master L-R" button does nothing, and when I try to select the monitors (Near Field) nothing happens.
The sound is only heard in Genelec, which can be controlled from the Fader "Master L / R" nothing more.
Maybe the speaker connections are wrong?
Or is there any software setup to be done in the D8B? Help

[Y-my-R]

Great to hear that you're almost up and running now!

The speakers are supposed to be wired up differently from what you describe.

The Master Out has a different purpose. That's not usually where the speakers are connected (if you'd be mixing a live-show with the D8B, then you'd connect the amps and the P.A. speakers to the Master Outs, but not for Studio use).

What the Master Out is intended for, is to connect a "Stereo Master Recorder", where you would record to when you're doing a mixdown. This could be a DAT Recorder, or a Stereo Master Tape Machine... or even another computer, etc.

However, nowadays most people wouldn't use the analog Master Output for that. Personally, I don't have the Master Out connected at all, and use the S/PDIF digital output instead (which mirrors the signal from the Master Output, but in a lossless digital format). Depending on what I connect, I can send that to a DAT recorder or to the digital S/PDIF input on my computer (...and record my final mixes into software on the computer).

The AES/EBU connectors are also digital and have the same signal as the analog Master Outputs (and also the same as the S/PDIF outputs). So, you could also use those for recording your final mixes to a stereo master machine (or computer). It just depends what connectors that other "Master Device" has.

As for how to connect the speakers:

- Sounds like the Yamaha Speakers are connected correctly.
- Connect your Genelec Speakers to the "CR Main" (Control Room Main) outputs on the back of the D8B. (Maybe you'll need different cables, if you had connected the speakers with XLR-to-XLR cables before. You'll need two 1/4" (6.3 mm) TRS connectors (looks like headphone connectors) on the D8B end, to use the CR Main ouputs).

After that, you would be using the "Speaker Level" V-Pot to the right of the Master Fader, to control how loud your speakers will be. If that's turned up a bit, you should hear something. If you push the "Main" button above the "Speaker Level" V-Pot, then sound should come out of your Genelec speakers. And if you push the "Near Field" button, then sound should come out of your Yamaha speakers.

...if you still don't hear anything, make sure that the Master Fader is turned up, and that "Master L-R" is selected in the "Control Room" section, a little further up from the Speaker Level V-Pot. Those buttons (i.e. 2 Track A, B, C, Digital In 1+2, Master L-R) select which of these sound-sources are being sent to the Main or Near Field speaker outputs.

So, to be clear - you would NOT be controlling the level at which you listen with the Master Fader. The Master Fader is supposed to be used to set the level at which you record your mix to your "Master Recorder". But the Master Fader still needs to be turned up, in order for any signal to go to the "Control Room" section. So, I'd just set the Master Fader so the signal arrives at the Master Meter LEDs strongly, but never shows anything red. After that, you use the Speaker Level V-Pot, to adjust how loud you're listening, but you would usually not touch the Master Fader much anymore (except to make corrections, or do Master Fade Ins/Outs, etc. - but I'd automate that).

By doing it that way, and keeping the Master Fader and your Monitor Level Controls separate, you can turn the volume of the music you hear up and down however you want while monitoring, without impacting what gets recorded to the Master Recorder.

I hope this makes sense.

But generally, I think your D8B/HDR combination is now working as it should! Everything else is just regular usage. And for that, the manual covers a lot of ground, so I'd recommend checking that out, too.

If you get stuck, don't hesitate to ask though!

Best of luck again, and I'm glad we generally got your system in working order now!

[pino68]

thank you very much for your reply

[pino68]

good morning, I thank all those who helped me solve the problems I had with the D8B. Thank you.
I wanted to ask one last thing: is it possible to go into HUI mode to check "Logic Audio"? If yes, how to do it?

[Y-my-R]

HUI mode can be activated from the "Options" menu, I think - at least if you're on Mackie OS 5.1. Not sure with which version of the OS this feature was introduced.

Also, just so you're aware - HUI mode on the D8B only gives you 8 faders. That's the faders from 17-24. Better than nothing, of course, if you need a "mixer" control surface for your DAW.

However, for this to work, MIDI would need to be connected in both directions, between your computer and the D8B.

You could disconnect the MIDI cables from the D8B and the HDR every time, and connect the D8B to your computer's MIDI interface instead (...and the MIDI out from the computer to the MIDI in of the D8B). But that doesn't seem very practical, if you have to "re-wire" the MIDI connections each time you want to use HUI.

Alternatively, you could get a couple of MIDI splitter cables and MIDI merge boxes to make this work... but that's getting a little complicated. So, let's examine all options first, and let me know first which route you want to go, before I type out all the stuff you would have to do to make this work.

A third alternative is available, if you have a MIDI interface connected to your computer, that can be configured like a MIDI patchbay. I'm not sure if those do that, but typically, that's a feature on some larger 8x8 MIDI interfaces, like MOTU's MIDI Timepiece AV (USB), or the old Emagic Unitor 8 (I think on the Unitor, you can't use the unit as a patchbay and via USB at the same time, so that's probably not really a solution).

A 4th alternative (and the best one, IMO), is to forget about the D8B's native HUI mode, and get a ProBox instead. Then you can use all 25 faders on the D8B to control Logic (either in HUI mode - but the Master Fader won't do anything in this case, or in Mackie Control/Logic Control mode). If you get an external DB25 serial switch, you can even boot up the D8B in Mixer mode first, and then switch over to ProBox (i.e. MIDI Controller) mode, while the D8B is still passing audio (but the HDR and D8B will likely no longer sync when in ProBox mode. Maybe only if you use the transport controls on the HDR... but maybe not even then).
Also, I should point out that external switching with a DB25 serial switch-box, is not working 100%, though. Doing that sometimes returns all the channel faders to -infinity (silence), and you have to switch back another time to bring them back up, and then switch over again.
...but still... I have two D8B desks next to each other, that both work as mixers, and have ProBoxes on both. So, I can use the two consoles either as a GIANT MIDI controller via the ProBox (50 Faders), or as a "large format" mixer... or both alternatively without rebooting or changing connections, just by flipping that DB25 serial switch.

Let me know which direction you want to go... but short of changing MIDI cable connections every time, each of those solutions will likely mean that you'd have to buy something, and go through a relatively complicated configuration process (...the ProBox also being the simplest of those, IMO, if you don't have much MIDI experience).

[pino68]

So ... I own Mac v. 5.1
midi interface Yamaha 6 doors in-out
Audio Logic X
I would like to take advantage of the HUI modalià because doing so takes full advantage of both the D8B and Logic (since I have a still efficient D8B).
As you know "Audio Logic" is now full of sounds, of samples of all kinds ... so I think HDR will use it very little (only on some occasions) ... practically on the computer you already have everything you need.
I'd like to do what you say IMO, the fourth alternative, which I don't know ... that of using a ProBox.
As for the midi connections, I believe that there is no problem, I use the Yamaha interface and I connect everything to it (In-Out of all the machines) I do this only once.

[Y-my-R]

Thanks for the info about your system.

I 'think' we might be able to get the D8B's built-in HUI mode (8-faders) to work, without the need to buy extra gear, but I'm not sure yet… this is pretty much just a “theory”. But in theory, it should work.

This would only work, though, if you always have your computer (Mac) on and Logic running - even if you only want to use the D8B with the HDR. But at least you wouldn’t have to re-connect the MIDI cables all the time.

The bad news is, that it will require a little bit of “deep-tweaking” inside of Logic’s “MIDI Environment”.

Since your MIDI interface has 6 ports, I’d suggest to connect the D8B and HDR as follows (it doesn’t matter if you use the same port numbers… it just always has to be out-to-in & in-to-out on the SAME PORT NUMBER for each device):

Yamaha MIDI Out 1 -> D8B MIDI In
Yamaha MIDI In 1 -> D8B MIDI Out

Yamaha MIDI Out 2 -> HDR MIDI In
Yamaha MIDI In 2 -> HDR MIDI Out

Since the D8B and HDR are no longer “directly” connected to each other, but to your computer’s MIDI interface, the MIDI Interface/Computer wouldn’t know to send what’s coming in from the D8B to the HDR, and what's coming in from the HDR to the D8B, to create a “loop” between the devices. Because of that, we’ll have to do that in software. That’s where the Logic Environment comes in.

So, after connecting the MIDI cables as described above, open the “MIDI Environment” in Logic (Menu bar: Window -> Open MIDI Environment).

1. On the left side, change “Layer” to “All Objects”
2. From the menu bar in the open window, click “New -> Physical Input”
3. A new “(Physical Input)” listing appears in the list. Double-click it.
4. A small box with the port numbers of your MIDI interface should appear. On its right side, are little “terminals” - one for each MIDI port on your MIDI interface (there should be 6).
5. From the menu bar in the open window, click “New -> Instrument”. Rename the new Instrument to “D8B” (you can rename it by clicking on (Instrument) in the box on the left).
6. With the “D8B” instrument selected, in the box on the left side, find where it says “Port” and change it from “All” to “Port 1”. (How exactly this port is called, depends on your MIDI interface… something like Yamaha 1 or so, probably)
7. From the menu bar in the open window, click “New -> Instrument”. Rename the new Instrument to “HDR.”
8. With the “HDR” instrument selected, in the box on the left side, find where it says “Port” and change it from “All” to “Port 2”.
9. In the “Physical Input” section, click on the “terminal” next to “Port 1”, and while keeping the mouse button held down, drag the mouse onto the “HDR” Instrument. This will create a virtual cable, that connects the two devices together (...this should ensure, that MIDI data coming in from the D8B, is sent directly back out to the port where the HDR is connected to).
10. In the “Physical Input” section, click on the “terminal” next to “Port 2”, and while keeping the mouse button held down, drag the mouse onto the “D8B” Instrument. This will virtually send the MIDI data that comes into the computer from the HDR, back out to the D8B).
(If you want, you can now close that window).

The result of all of this “should” be, that the D8B and HDR are now “virtually” connected, whenever you have Logic open and that song loaded. Now, if you press the transport controls on either the D8B or HDR, they should sync to each other and the Timecode Displays should move on both.
(I hope this part works - I haven’t tried to do it myself, but in theory it should do the trick. I actually want to try this myself, but will likely not get a chance in a while).

Now for the HUI-control part:

In Logic, and from the “Logic Pro X” menu in the upper left, select “Control Surfaces -> Setup”

1. From the menu bar in the open window, click “New -> Install”
2. From the list that opens, find the entry for “Mackie Designs - HUI”. Click/highlight it, and then click “Add” (don’t click scan… I think it would likely fail, and look frozen for a few minutes)
3. A new Icon that looks like the original Mackie HUI hardware will appear in the “Control Surface Setup” window. Click on it to select it.
4. In the box on the left side, for “Output Port”, select “Port 1” (or whichever port the D8B is connected to).
5. In the box on the left side, for “Input Port”, select “Port 1” (or whichever port the D8B is connected to). You can close this window now.
6. Create at least 8 tracks in Logic (doesn’t matter what type).
7. On the D8B, go to the “Options” Menu, and activate HUI mode.
8. Use the transport controls on the D8B and move faders 17-24 around a bit on the D8B. This should be controlling Logic now… Logic should start playback, and the faders on the Logic channels you created should move around.

So, this should “roughly” be the steps needed to be able to continue using the D8B & HDR together, while being able to use 8 faders on the D8B to control Logic - without having to reconnect MIDI cables, or having to buy more equipment.

This is all in theory, though, and I haven’t gotten a chance to try it. I do want to give this a shot myself, since it would make sense for my own setup here at my place. However, I recently re-organized the entire studio, and have a month-long travel coming up that I have to prepare for. So, I’m afraid I won’t be able to try this myself, until around the end of October. But if you want to give it a try, the above instructions should at least get you “close”. There might still be something I’m missing here or there, but the overall concept should theoretically work. Some detail tweaking may be necessary.

Also - this is an important note - if you get this to work, Logic will only "remember" the HUI setup for each new song you create and work on (or even old songs that you load up... you should already be able to use the D8B's HUI mode to control them).
However, the "MIDI Environment" part I describe above, will only be saved in the "Song" you prepared above. Any new song you create, will NOT have this setup in place yet. So, for this purpose, it would make sense to create a template for Logic Pro (Autoload song), so that Logic would always include the D8B/HDR virtual MIDI wiring, whenever you create a new song. How to work with Templates, is described somewhere in the Logic manual.

Well, good luck with giving all this a try - I know this sound a bit complex. Especially if you're not familiar with the Logic "Environment"!

If you do want to go with a ProBox instead (to be able to use all of the faders on the D8B to control Logic), then you’ll have to direct-message “munkustrap”. A forum member here on this page. He hand-builds them, and is an awesome guy to deal with. He’ll also be very helpful with getting the ProBox set up and running for you.

…but since it doesn’t cost anything to try the D8B’s “native” HUI mode, via what I described above, I’d probably just try that first, so you can decide how you like it, before asking munkustrap to build a ProBox for you (not sure how much he charges for them now - please ask him directly).

Alright - I hope this helps. If anyone else on this forum has any additions or corrections to the above instructions, please chime in! As I said, I can’t try this myself until almost 2 months from now…

Again, best of luck!

[pino68]

thank you very much for your reply

[pino68]

Hi Y my-R, we haven't heard from you for a long time also because you had many things to do ... I wanted to inform you that, unfortunately, the HUI way doesn't work for me.
I did everything as you said, but it doesn't work ... you said that when you came back you wanted to try ... did you then try?
Please, let me know ... any new ideas?
Thanks