Word Clock - Internal Apogee or External from Interface?

[nicktight]

Hi everyone,

just got my first d8b and it just works fine so far.
I'm using a Core2Quad PC with Nuendo on it and have a RME Fireface UC Interface.
I always read that the d8b "prefers to be the clock master". So I hooked up my RME with the d8b, connecting In to Out and Out to in. Is that necessary? Or even bad? Should I only use one cable from the Apogee Word Clock to the RME?

Actually today I encountered some cracks and noise on the ADAT Channels coming from the Interface, assuming that this is a clock issue.
Should I prefer using the RME as the master clock? And if so, is the bootup sequence still the same, meaning d8b first (even as Clock Slave) and then everything else?

Lots of questions.
Thanks for any help.

nicktight

[Crash]

The d8b always wants to be fired up without any clock no matter if it is master or slave. My boot up sequence is d8b, Lucid clock, then HDR. The boot up seems more important than the master/slave selection.

[FrankH]

The d8b always wants to be fired up without any clock no matter if it is master or slave. My boot up sequence is d8b, Lucid clock, then HDR. The boot up seems more important than the master/slave selection.

I find this statement mildly amusing. Why? because my tried and true method for absolute fail-safe bootup is the MOTU 2408, Lucid GENx 192 followed by the D8B (preset as slave) and finally my MacPro 8 core Nehalem.

Any other order will almost always result in the D8B not "catching". And by this I mean missing input channels or whole banks, swapped channels or the classic "all meters pinned/horrornoise/shutthedamnthingoffbutquick" syndrome.

I mention this because depending what's attached/who's the master determines the powerup order, making a diff towards a more consistently reliable D8B bootup.

So um...YMMV. Just sayin'.

[High C Double G]

Whoa that's a new one... It might depend on factors unknown why this occurs. I know that with my 300 MHz CPU (if that matters???) I need to get the d8b on first and let it "look" for a clock and then turn everything else on after the d8b. When the d8b receives the clock the little flashing *? goes away and all is good,

FWIW, I am setting up my original 166 MHz up for use (possibly letting my spare 300 MHz go bye bye) - I will be interested to see if that makes a difference in the d8b boot up sequence. I should be able to test that later today --- yep it is already Tuesday here in So Cal. So I will report if the thing will boot with a digital signal, clock, thingamajig, already present.

When I was using the original0 166 MHz I did not have the other gear yet and I read the "d8b want to be king of the castle" in the DATABASE so I really never questioned it; I have though, since acquiring the "other" digital gear, had trouble booting the d8b if it was not turned on first.

Interesting... very interesting.

hmmmmm.

Michael

[Crash]

The d8b always wants to be fired up without any clock no matter if it is master or slave. My boot up sequence is d8b, Lucid clock, then HDR. The boot up seems more important than the master/slave selection.

I find this statement mildly amusing. .

Well I am glad I am here for your amusement Frank... My experience is if the d8b does not get fired up first, it is usually a recipe for everything you just said...

For your further amusement Frank, this is in the databse:

Always boot up the d8b first without any external Wordclock or digital devices turned on. After the flashing */? appears in the fluoro display on the console, turn on the external clock and your other digital devices.

[nicktight]

Holy Sh...

I think this will be an interesting discussion.
Let me throw something in. Today I did some mixing after my classic boot up sequence (d8b/Master then RME/Slave and Computer) and I noticed again some light distortion, cracks and noise which became worse after some 30 minutes and then suddenly let to the "DUMP DUMP DUMP-flashing-meters-what-the-hell-is-going-on??".

As posted by "High C" before I also read everywhere that the d8b wants to be King and booted first, so I'm kind of surprised that apparently not everybody does so. I will try to set the d8b as slave and the RME as master and see what happens...

PS: Did some reading today and saw that the DUMP DUMP can be also the "dreaded rail cap" syndrome... I'm kind of scared now...

[FrankH]

Well I am glad I am here for your amusement Frank

The meaning you read into my remark was not aimed at you personally. What I meant was I was simply amused that it would appear that there is no specific gospel to the process. It was not a Tommy DeVito moment.

I have tried (and documented) every possible bootup combination over the years. The one that presently works the most reliably and consistent for my particular setup is the order I posted. Again...this is what works for the gear I'm using. Trial and error led me to this path.

I'm just pointing out that what works for some may not work for others. In my case, The GENx clocks everything. The D8B and MOTU 2408 need to see the clock from the GENx before the Mac gets powered on. And for some particular reason, the 2804 need to sees the GENx clock before the D8B sees it. If I change the order, the percentage of boot failure rises. Somewhat dramatically.

I think my particular situation has to do with the where the Mac boot sits in the order. If the Mac is booted anywhere but last, all hell breaks loose. And that may have to do with the ADAT connections...and how the D8B deals with recognition/rejection of the ADAT clocking.

I dunno. In my case it's all based on empirical evidence. All I know is that it works quite reliably for me. Even so, there are still rare occasions where boot will fail...and I think everyone has experienced that one time or another, regardless of boot sequence.

Would be interesting to see what everyone's order is with the gear they use. Then perhaps a bit of collating may shine some light on why some boot orders work better for specific setups.

Just sayin'....

[Crash]

Well I am glad I am here for your amusement Frank

It was not a Tommy DeVito moment.

I never get to pistol whip anyone anymore.....

[High C Double G]

Whoa that's a new one... It might depend on factors unknown why this occurs. I know that with my 300 MHz CPU (if that matters???) I need to get the d8b on first and let it "look" for a clock and then turn everything else on after the d8b. When the d8b receives the clock the little flashing *? goes away and all is good,

FWIW, I am setting up my original 166 MHz up for use (possibly letting my spare 300 MHz go bye bye) - I will be interested to see if that makes a difference in the d8b boot up sequence. I should be able to test that later today --- yep it is already Tuesday here in So Cal. So I will report if the thing will boot with a digital signal, clock, thingamajig, already present.

When I was using the original0 166 MHz I did not have the other gear yet and I read the "d8b want to be king of the castle" in the DATABASE so I really never questioned it; I have though, since acquiring the "other" digital gear, had trouble booting the d8b if it was not turned on first.

Interesting... very interesting.

hmmmmm.

Michael

Sorry to bring up a somewhat Zombie thread...

... and quoting my self here too, but an update. I booted the d8b (with the 166Mhz) after the computer and other digital pieces of gear and it did not do the weird meter bridge lock and such; it just did not boot. system error - dsp card not ready time of deal. The boot sequence was recorders, controller, computer, wordclock generator, DA convertor, then the d8b. Like I said just did not boot up, no real weirdness.

I shut everything down booted the d8b first, then everything else after no problems. For me, I am just going to keep the d8b is king of the castle rule in place.

The strange thing honestly is that the wacky meters pegged and lock up didn't happen. it just quietly didn't boot up. hmmmm.

Michael