Those flow-diagrams and patchbay mapping pics look like a TON of work!!
I wonder what software you used for that… I was looking for a free app to do the same kind of thing for my setup at some point, but then never really followed through.
What I didn’t fully understand in the diagram is, how many ADAT channels are connected between the various devices. I’d assume 24 channels of ADAT between the D8B and HDR (but with the Digital Patchbay in-between)… but the Cranborne only does 8 channels, I think, but uses the same symbol in the diagram. So, not sure if each ADAT line means 8 channels or basically the number of ADAT ports the connected device has…?
What I also sort of derive from the image, is that you’re basically running the HDR/D8B combo as a recording system, while the Cranborne serves as your audio interface, transferring 8 channels between computer/cranborne and the patchbay… which I would assume would then by default be connected to the Alt I/O?
I have a similar setup, and wish I had a Cranborne unit, but that’ll still have to wait.
Also, the setup I’m describing below, is not exactly what I’m running now, but is the concept I want to put in place, once I got a hold of a working M-Audio ProFire 2626 unit (I used to have one and know what it can and cannot do). I still felt that this “imaginary” setup, makes more sense for comparison and to point out additional options. (Reality on the ground for me is, that I have an Analog I/O card in the Alt I/O slot and still have THAT on the patchbay… but looks like I might get a 2626 very soon… someone said I can have theirs).
For me it’s this:
D8B digital:
D8B DIO-8 ADAT 1-8: Digital Patchbay (goes to PreSonus Quantum ADAT 1-8 by default)
D8B DIO-8 ADAT 9-16: PreSonus Quantum ADAT 9-16
D8B DIO-8 ADAT 17-24: Universal Audio Apollo 8
D8B DIO-8 ADAT Alt I/O: Digital Patchbay (got to M-Audio ProFire 2626 (as Standalone bi-directional converter))
D8B DIO-8 TDIF 1-8: HDR TDIF 1-8
D8B DIO-8 TDIF 9-16: HDR TDIF 9-16 (planned… not connected, yet)
D8B DIO-8 TDIF 17-24: HDR TDIF 17-24 (planned… not connected, yet)
S/PDIF: Digital Patchbay (goes to PreSonus S/PDIF in by default… that’s how I capture mixes from the D8B).
AES/EBU out: Panasonic DAT recorder (not that I'd really still use that, but the option is there)
HDR digital:
HDR DIO-8 TDIF 1-8: D8B TDIF 1-8
HDR DIO-8 TDIF 9-16: D8B TDIF 1-8 (planned… not connected yet)
HDR DIO-8 TDIF 17-24: D8B TDIF 1-8 (planned… not connected, yet)
PreSonus Quantum digital:
Quantum ADAT 1-8: Digital Patchbay (goes to D8B ADAT 1-8 by default)
Quantum ADAT 9-16: D8B ADAT 9-16
S/PDIF: Digital Patchbay (receives D8B mixes by default).
Apollo 8 digital:
Apollo ADAT 1-8: D8B ADAT 17-24
S/PDIF: Digital Patchbay (no default routing).
M-Audio Octane (Standalone 8-channel pre):
ADAT Out 1-8: Digital Patchbay (typically used on D8B ADAT 1-8, when using my electronic drum kit. That’s connected to the inserts on that unit).
ProFire 2626 digital (Standalone):
ADAT 1-8: Digital Patchbay (goes to D8B Alt I/O by default, while the analog jacks go to the analog patchbay. This allows to switch 8 channels digitally (to D8B ADAT 1-8 or Alt I/O) or patch analog signals to the Alt I/O without having to decide on analog or digital via the card installed into the D8B’s Alt I/O.
If I had a Cranborne unit, I would replace the ProFire 2626 with it, as it can serve the same digital/analog purpose via the digital and analog patchbays, AND has room for additional outboard effects, I could then choose to tie in over the ALT I/O, digitally.
There’s a number of additional S/PDIF devices connected to the digital patchbay, but that would unnecessarily complicate things if I’d list this here.
How it works:
- Anyway, essentially, the idea of the above is, to have 24 channels going between the computer and the D8B via, or alternatively between the HDR and D8B (via TDIF… but I don’t have all the cables I need, and typically use my setup with a DAW, anyway).
- Alternatively, I can have 8 ADAT channels from the Octane/Electronic Drums go to D8B 1-8, to monitor the (pilot) drums without latency. I could also send these to the Alt I/O, but mostly use channels 1-8.
- Alternatively, I can send signals from the ProFire 2626 to Channels 1-8 or the Alt I/O.
- Alternatively, I can send 8 ADAT channels between the Quantum and either D8B channels 1-8 or the Alt I/O.
As for the analog connections, this is what I have on the (analog) patchbay:
D8b analog:
- 24x line inputs to analog patchbay. My synths/samplers are normalled to these, but when I print stems, I don’t use these pres/converters.
- 12x Mic inputs (with all channels having end points on an analog XLR bay in the control room, and also on a stagebox in the recording room)
- 12 Aux Sends (normalled to my outboard FX units)
- 8 Buss Outputs (DB25 - normalled to my surround speakers)
- 2x Headphones: Patchbay for easy access
(I do NOT have the inserts on the patch bay, since I wouldn’t record through the converters/pres, anyway. No point for an “advanced” signal flow with inserts for me, here).
PreSonus Quantum analog:
- 6x Line inputs: Analog Patchbay (not normalled… only 6 because XLR/TRS combo jacks on the front panel are stupid for use with patchbays)
- 8x Line outputs: Analog Patchbay (normalled to first 8 channels of 16-channel Analog summing mixer)
UA Apollo 8 analog:
- 8x Line input: Analog Patchbay (not normalled)
- 8x Line output: Analog Patchbay (normalled to second set of 8 channels of 16-channel analog summing mixer)
ProFire 2626 analog:
8x Line input: Analog Patchbay (not normalled)
8x Line Output: Analog Patchbay (not normalled).
How it works:
- I typically only use the D8B’s analog inputs to MONITOR (not record) my outboard synths and FX units. But for that, it’s great to have that whole layer of 24 analog channels!
- The audio interface inputs are on the analog patchbay, because I typically record directly to the DAW via those interfaces, and patch what I want to record. Additional analog Pres are also on the patchbay. (The line connections on the stagebox are also on the patchbay and so are additional XLRs, making signal routing easy)
- I also use the Line inputs/outputs on the Apollo, to use (low latency) DSP FX on it like send-FX that I can send to from the D8B (or other patch points). I wouldn’t use this for stuff where the phase needs to be 100%, but for something like a nice reverb, it’s good and usable.
- I DO use the D8B’s Aux sends to route signals to external FX units… so, those converters I do use. But I do more with ITB effects, than outboard gear, usually.
- I have the analog outputs of the Quantum and Apollo normalled to a passive analog summing box. I bring the level back up with a Aurora Audio GTQ2 pre (I also usually use this for all individually tracked instruments, because it sounds great. And with that “Neve” sound on the way in, and again when summing, I at least “imagine” that this warms the signal up quite a bit with all the iron in that pre.
So, basically, I have most analog connections on the patchbay, and record directly into the DAW, with the D8B mostly serving as a monitor mixer, but I DO use some of the FX etc. on channels that come in via ADAT, that get mixed down to the S/PDIF again. So, I do mix on the D8B sometimes (but sometimes stay completely in the box, using the D8B as a controller via the ProBox… depends on the project).
Since my audio interfaces are Thunderbolt and have pretty good latency, this works as long as the channel count doesn’t get too high (i.e. needs larger buffer which results in latency).
Most of the time, I don’t need to record more than 8 tracks at a time, though, and in such cases, usually record through the Apollo 8, and then output the signal latency-free to the D8B for monitoring, and so I can dial in a bit of a better sound for the talent to hear (e.g. compression or FX, etc.)
Anyway… lots of text, and probably impossible to follow. I have to admit that it took me a while to wrap my head around what’s going on in your signal flow diagram, Dok… and can only imagine how terrible it is, to try to figure out what I’m saying above without the pics, sorry!
As for your patchbay layout, honestly, I couldn’t think this through enough, to “virtually” follow what goes where etc. I think if I’d stand in front of it, it’d be easier to grasp… with the pics, I think my attention span just doesn’t hold up long enough, haha!
Well, I hope there’s maybe something in my setup above, that could inspire some additional crazy routing options… it’s all about going as crazy as possible, right?
